Djagmo: Welcome to the Knowledge Entrepreneurs Show, where we celebrate the innovators driving change in the education industry at Edison Os. We've worked with over 500 knowledge entrepreneurs to turn their ideas into profitable businesses. In today's episode of the Knowledge Entrepreneur Show, we have Toro.

Djagmo: Toro is a Pune University engineering topper who spent six years traveling across India and immersed in spirituality to engineer life and self before engineering stuff for the world. He found his purpose in bringing insights and ideas from spirituality to modern society in a practical and applicable way.

Djagmo: Additionally, he studied human development, management and organizational development science. Uh, before we get started, I ask you questions and all, you know, let me just, uh, give you another very quick little brief about what is the show so that, you know, it'll help us kind of align in that direction, uh, because, um, that's what we're gonna be talking about.

Djagmo: So, as you see, the name of the show is the Knowledge Entrepreneur Show, which means, you know, we are talking mostly all the guests. So far. We've got about 10 guests so far on the show. Mm-hmm. Uh, most of them have been knowledge entrepreneurs. That means, you know, in the education domain, they've been doing some sort of a business.

Djagmo: It could be a training business, it could be a test prep business sat aisles, or, you know, even a leadership coaching or for that matter, somebody building some, uh, tech product for, uh, solving a problem in the education domain. Anything like that. All of these people come as a knowledge entrepreneurs, uh, you know, category.

Djagmo: And then, you know, if you notice it's a very niche category. Uh, not sure how many more guests we are gonna be having, but you know, we hope to have lots more. Uh, but why are we doing this, right? Uh, we are basically, uh, we are also a knowledge entrepreneur startup, you know, knowledge entrepreneurial startup.

Djagmo: That means, you know, we, uh, Edison os we build, um, A platform, an online platform, uh, that helps trainers or, you know, any knowledge business for them to do their, you know, operate their entire business online. Mm-hmm. From, uh, you know, building their websites to collecting payments. Everything in between, including teaching classrooms.

Djagmo: Everything is integrated. So, uh, okay. If we are doing that wireless podcast now, um, we, as you know, we as a company, we have to provide content. It has to be of some value and who are a target. Uh, you know, uh, we target people who are already into training, teaching, or, you know, who already run a business in the teaching, but then, you know, they want to come online.

Djagmo: Mm-hmm. Um, but okay. You know, how much content can you put theoretically, you know, you can talk about your platform, you can do, you can talk about best practices and stuff like that. But then we realized, you know, watching some other podcasts, we just realized there's nothing is, you know, there's nothing more valuable than talking to people who are running businesses, you know, um, not to, you know, get, uh, tips and trick and stuff like that, but mainly just to share their journey and to kind of show people out there, you know, what it takes to be an entrepreneur.

Djagmo: Teaching training is one thing, okay. You can go work for another company, go teach, get paid and come back. But if you want to take the leap of faith and start your own company, start acquiring your own clients. It's no joke. And it's not everybody's cup of tea. And, um, uh, this podcast may not only help people, you know, uh, understand what it takes to come, uh, onto the entrepreneurial journey and then equip themselves with it.

Djagmo: But this can also be a podcast where people realize, oh, you know what? This may not be my cup of tea. And then if, if, if it can save them from the, uh, pain and the journey, and if they can save some time and use somebody else's experience to realize what they should be doing, that is also a win for us. So that's where we are coming from, you know, uh, talking to people, right?

Djagmo: So we definitely talk about what our guests do, and we also, you know, help them talk about their business so that, you know, when this is distributed, it kind of helps them get some traction. But, uh, you know, majority of the podcasts, my questions at least, are gonna be around your business. You know, how did you start off, you know, um, how do you manage to stay alive?

Djagmo: How do you acquire clients? Because these are the tough things, right? What do you do when the going is not great for you? These are the stuff that we really want to talk about, and that's what this podcast is gonna be. And, uh, so yeah, that's, this is simply what I wanted to, uh, share with you before we get started.

Djagmo: We appreciate your approach.

Tejas Toro: Uh, it's pretty much.

Djagmo: That's great. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And uh, you know, after we probably talked to about 25 people, we also have a plan where, you know, we can create a community of all the guests that we've come together and it could be a good exercise for all the people that have come on and then, you know, probably, you know, get to know a lot of other guests and then exchange valuable ideas or any networking.

Djagmo: You know, you never know what door is gonna open when you meet your people. Very important. Yeah. Great. Um, TEIS, I'll start off with my first question. Um, my first question is a very light, open ended personal question, which will help listeners connect with a person and then, you know, whatever you talk about, your business is gonna have so much more context for people to understand.

Djagmo: So, You are right now, you know, in the coaching domain, and you must have had your own journey. Uh, please walk us through, go back as much as you want, you know, your childhood, your growing up, because everything is contributed to who you are today. And, uh, please, you know, walk us through as a story, um, and you know, how you, um, are in this position today.

Djagmo: Yeah, it's a very good

Tejas Toro: question because our journey contributes to who we are, right? Uh, so for me it has been, I think, a very interesting journey to say the lead. Okay. Uh, the thing is, I think the big, two big things which made a big impact on my life is first is my mother had schizophrenia since I was a child.

Tejas Toro: And so, uh, as a child it was pretty difficult environment to grow up. Uh, I was the only child. Wow. Uh, no brothers, no sisters. And, uh, I'm from Matra and my father had a transferable job, so we were always away from Matra and uh mm-hmm. And so there were no relatives around, you know, and I think, so there was no support system.

Tejas Toro: So dad would be going, going for his office work. And, uh, so three of us in the house and that kind of an environment, my father had little temper as well. Uh, so being alone in that environment, okay, I think that made me strong. You know, uh, that made me find ways to, to create my own happiness. And I think all that turned out to be a blessing.

Tejas Toro: And, uh, I think, uh, I have continued that approach of looking for how to create a good life for yourself. And when I found those answers, uh, it has always been a passion and intent to share those answers. Right, right. Uh, so this was the first thing, the environment in the house. The second most important thing I think, which happened in my life is my father was an athe.

Tejas Toro: Okay? And he would throw away any God idols or anything, uh, because he didn't believe in all that. But he would always tell me, you decide for yourself. This is my belief system. I'm not gonna impose this on you. Uh, you decide for yourself. Now, my father being in Athe on the other side, my mother's side, like my mother's, uh, like brothers and her father, they were into spirituality very deeply.

Tejas Toro: So I had these contrast references as growing up. And what I was seeing was, although my father was very practical, like, you know, very disciplined, uh, save money, invest money, live life in a very particular way, uh, but there was lack of emotions. Uh, and there would be emotions, but, uh, we wouldn't be able to share it in the more effective way, uh, his emotions, right?

Tejas Toro: That's what I experienced, right? And on the mother's side, um, there's this spiritual angle. Uh, I would love to be in my, you know, my mother's side. Uh, but there was lack of practicality and lot of indiscipline as well. And so I realized neither this is hundred percent right, neither that is hundred percent right.

Tejas Toro: And so then if this is not right, what is right was the question, uh, which I was asking myself and the world out there. And unfortunately, as we know in our education system, there are no answers for this. You know, the real questions, which a soul has are never answered. Uh, yeah. Right? And then, uh, in my engineering, uh, I came across a book by Swami, and that book, uh, transformed me.

Tejas Toro: I didn't just read that book. I experienced that book, and it has been a beautiful journey since. That is the journey. You know,

Djagmo: they just, this is great, man. I mean, uh, it's already, you know, uh, an inspiring story because, um, sorry, I mean, uh, because you, uh, uh, shared, uh, you know, your mother's condition, uh, who had, you know, schizophrenia, right?

Djagmo: Um, I've, uh, followed a few people along my journey as well. Uh, people who, uh, struggle suffer with schizophrenia. It's a, it's a mental, um, uh, you know, uh, condition. What can I say? Is it a disorder condition? It's a condition, yeah. Condition. Uh, from what I understand, uh, schizophrenia is this condition where you see things, where you hear things.

Djagmo: You're right. It's a lot of imaginary things happen. Hallucinate. Right, right, right. And, um, uh, not only is it difficult for the person that's going through it, it is very difficult also for the people around them. So, uh, so your, I mean, did you guys, uh, lived, did you just manage schizophrenia as a family, uh, for your mother?

Djagmo: Uh, how is she? Uh, so

Tejas Toro: yeah, I think manage is the word. Uh, she is still going through that. Uh, she goes off medicines a lot of time. We have tried alternate ways, but it has been a difficult affair.

Djagmo: Uh, yeah. Okay. So, uh, uh, so can I, uh, say that you, growing up largely, you did not have a normal, uh, relationship with your mother?

Djagmo: Yes, I would say so. Okay. It was mostly you would be probably, uh, lending a supporting to your mother, plus taking care of your own life. Yeah. Okay. Okay, got it. Uh, fine. So, uh, but I see that, you know, uh, despite, uh, having this different childhood and different growing up compared to lot of us, right? I mean, it is a little different and it's, uh, a little special, I would say childhood used, I'm sure.

Djagmo: Uh, see, uh, there is this, uh, famous thing. I'm sure you know this as a coach. Uh, I've been, you know, uh, stumbling across this on Instagram reels these days. Um, uh, tough times create, uh, tough man. And, uh, tough men create good times and good times create weakness, something like this. And then weak men create tough times and then the cycle goes on.

Djagmo: So, I mean, as much as I can empathize with you, they just, uh, when I look at you, the way you come across, the way you talk, you, unless you tell somebody, nobody would have a clue that you had a rocky childhood or, you know, different childhood probably. You know, that's what I was trying to say is you definitely would've had an empowering journey because, you know, tough times make great men and, uh, probably that's.

Djagmo: Also could be the reason why you are in the coaching thing, because I'm sure you have a lot to offer. Uh, but I still, you know, you still mentioned that you ended up doing your engineering. Yes. Now tell me how. Yes. So,

Tejas Toro: uh, the journey from engineering to becoming a knowledge entrepreneur, especially as a coach, um, that just happened by chance.

Tejas Toro: Uh, I come, I come from a middle class family where, you know, there was no reference of business or self-employment. Most of my relators were doing job. Uh, so jobs like everybody else. The only reference I had was doing engineering and stuff like that. I was not such a sincere guy to go for medical. So engineering though intelligent but not sincere.

Tejas Toro: So engineering was the only option. So somehow got an admission, um, in, uh, engineering. Um, and I failed in two subjects in the first year. Failed in the two subjects in the second year, but I could go to the third. And, uh, it was in the third year that I read Swami. And uh Right. That made such a big transformation that I was fourth in Pune University in the third year, and I was second in Pune University in the last year.

Tejas Toro: And it had opened up something, you know, uh, for me. And, uh, I realized that this is something powerful and this has to be shared with the world. And I think sharing was always one of my intrinsic trait. You know, I have no idea that, uh, I would be becoming a trainer or a coach or something, like a knowledge entrepreneur, but I used to share it with my friends.

Tejas Toro: And most of my friends, they would say, you know, you know, uh, in that age you have different, uh, right. Yeah, yeah. But some of them, they would, you know, we would discuss more about it and they got into it, and their life trajectory also changed. And so that was inspiring, right. Um, and, uh, right, so I did my engineering being a topper, got placed in a German company.

Tejas Toro: But by this time I had realized that I don't want to get into, uh, you know, what's around, you know, there's, there's something else than what is seen. And I want to explore that. So I worked for about nine months in the job, and after nine months, I would say, uh, you know, I took a re, I left the job not knowing what to do.

Tejas Toro: And, uh, um, I was just traveling reading books. YouTube. YouTube was a great friend, you know, would be, uh, watching videos related to spirituality, self-help, you know, Jay Krishna, Osho and stuff like that. And then I started traveling, you know, uh, to and Himalayas, and I did you know, everything which I could come across.

Tejas Toro: And I think my father supported. The journey. Of course, they're, you know, they would say you're sitting at home, not earning and stuff like that. There was a lot of tension. They would not understand what I was doing. They would say, you know, reality is not in the books, you're always reading the books and YouTube, you know, you've gotta go out and experience real world stuff like that.

Tejas Toro: All that was happening. But whenever I would go to him and, you know, I would say, I want to do this workshop and I would need Manu money. Um, I, I would say that yes, he supported me in that. Uh, although he might not be understanding that journey. Uh, so yeah, did a lot of workshop now, uh, once I just wrote a letter to my parents that I'm going away and, uh, I, I went to Varanasi and I stayed there and I went to one particular place, um, as a seeker, you know, and to find the ultimate truth.

Tejas Toro: And I had already been in this spiritual quest for two, three years. And then I ended up in Varans in this place and. Three, four days. I was there being like a very den seeker doing whatever was required. And then I realized it was heading nowhere, you know? And I just, I just said it that this is not heading anywhere.

Tejas Toro: And I just, I went and slept, you know, and, and I had an amazing experience. I would say that was an experience, which really, um, there's, there are no words for it. So in that spiritual journey, I had some amazing experiences. I, a lot of, I, I realized there is infinite wisdom in the Indian spiritual domain, but at the same time, I realized there is lack of practicality.

Tejas Toro: Lot of supervision and lack of applicability also. Right, right. And then I realized there are western sciences, western ways of looking at this, which is more practical, applicable. So there's infinite wisdom in the eastern way of looking at life, but there's practicality in the western way of doing things.

Tejas Toro: And so it became my quest to integrate this, you know, that we take this infinite spiritual wisdom and share it with people in a practical way, which they could experience, they could apply in their day to day life. And so then I, I did, uh, you know, leadership coaching and postgraduate diploma experiential learning, and I did body movement therapy, uh, and lot of things like, uh, so I'm a certified trainer in neurolinguistic programming, so a lot of workshop, uh, in India.

Tejas Toro: And I traveled out of India also to. Those lot of, uh, workshops and, and all that. I think I would like to add this, all these workshops when I was doing the intent was not to get certificates. I don't even care about certificates. I don't even know where those certificates are lying in my house, whether they're still there because I shifted house, maybe, I don't know.

Tejas Toro: They might not be here with me. The intent of attending those workshop was to know myself better, to work on myself, and that approach has really helped me. And, uh, so then how did I turn this into a profession? That was also an excellent actually. Uh, so like I told you, I was, I was not doing anything in terms of earning money.

Tejas Toro: Uh, the journey was supported by some money, which I've said during my job, and of course my father was helping some, somewhat, not much, but yeah. So, um, One of my friend, he was thinking of starting a business, you know, he was also young and he was doing MBA at that time in Pune, and he was going to meet the head of National Entrepreneurship Network from Pune.

Tejas Toro: And he just took me along, you know, he said, come along, you know, uh, so these two people, like the head of the National Entrepreneurship Network, and my friend were talking, and this person asked my friend, uh, is this guy also with you? And he said, yes. So he said, you know, why don't you come up? Just be around.

Tejas Toro: And he asked me, what do you do? So I said, I, I am looking for myself, I'm searching for myself. So he laughed and he said, in your age, people search for job and you're,

Djagmo: they search for jobs and they search for investors. Exactly,

Tejas Toro: yes. Uh, and he said, I really like your answer. And he asked me, you know, more about it.

Tejas Toro: And I said, so, he said, I'm connected to some MBA colleges. Will you come and share your journey with the MBA students? So I said, what do I have to share? And so I said, nothing. You just share your journey. So I went there and I was given like a, a slot, you know, and I started speaking and I must agree that I was scared.

Tejas Toro: I was like, I was scared cause I was not used to it. Uh, but again, you see, uh, I remember that when Swami went to Chicago, even he was scared and that kinda, that was a good reference to have. And I started speaking and they came to me and said, you know, you can continue speaking beyond the, the time slot they had given me.

Tejas Toro: You know, so they, they in fact liked it, uh, probably. And by going back they gave me a check and I was like, wow, you know, uh, you can get money for speaking. And so then, you know, they called me again the next month or something and then through reference, I think all my references, I can connect back to one or two incidences like that.

Tejas Toro: And that's how, you know, I came into it accident.

Djagmo: Amazing, man. Amazing. Because, uh, you know, uh, eventually, uh, what happens is, you know, in the podcast as we go through one of the questions, um, is, you know, especially for the people, uh, who'd be listening to you and, you know, who'd probably be aspiring to be somebody like you, one of the important things today is, you know, uh, it's not about the talent.

Djagmo: It's not, see, we are all in what we do because we have our expertise and skills and all those things. There's no questions asked about that. But you know, what's the difficult thing to do for everybody is, you know, finding people who will buy, who will see value in their talent or, you know, who will see value in their expertise.

Djagmo: And finding these people is the most difficult thing. Or another word, selling sales is the most difficult thing, but you know, already, uh, you know, In fact, it's a common thread. You know, uh, in all the, uh, podcasts that I've seen as this, nobody has really, you know, been a master sales man so far. At least, you know, uh, everybody has come across a certain thing in a very organic way.

Djagmo: Uh, you know, because it was close to their heart, because it was passionate for them, and they did not seek money. And in the process, somehow money would solve the problem itself. So that's, again, you know, that's another insight that I've already gained, uh, from, uh, this, um, short conversation with you. But anyways, you know, I've got a lot of questions from whatever you've spoken so far.

Djagmo: Uh, trust me, it's a one of the most amazing starts to a podcast that I've ever had. Uh, wonderful journey because, um, uh, you know, I could relate a lot of things, uh, just like how you, okay. By the way, can you please share, uh, I'm also curious, and even our listeners might benefit from this, what is the name of the book that you read that's Swami The Road?

Djagmo: Or did you read a book about Saudi? It was

Tejas Toro: by him. The Youth Awake Arise. It's a very small booklet, but somebody, and, and there was a lion in that, you know, come up, lion, shake off the delusion that you are a sheep and know that you are the creator of your destiny, you know, for me. Right. I dunno, you know, I can't put in the words, they were not words for me.

Tejas Toro: Something happened inside when I read. Maybe there was something, uh, earlier and it just resonated inside. But something happened.

Djagmo: Nice, nice. Brilliant. Uh, so the name of the book is, uh, the Youth Awaken, arise. Awaken, arise. Okay, got it. Great. I've definitely heard about this, but probably you.

Djagmo: Got it. And you said you read this, uh, somewhere in the middle of your engineering after your second year, and then that's how it kinda, you know, help you transform to a different student in your third and the fourth year. Uh, te I wanna ask you something, you know, again, going back to what you said, right, because, uh, the reason I'm touching upon this is purely for one reason.

Djagmo: It could not be, it could be a very uncommon situation for you, but then, you know, once we have this internet and you know, this is a very, uh, vast medium, and then it, it, it, it, it has the power to find the listeners on its own. And, um, maybe in your area, your story could be uncommon, but then when we take the entire world, there will be thousands of people, you know, who will share a similar story to what you probably went through and, uh, how much of your journey, you know, because you spoke a lot about.

Djagmo: Seeking. And you read this book somewhere in the middle of your engineering. Um, look, all of them. Even I've even, I've done my engineering, I've done my civil engineering, and I also had a, back in my first semester, I failed in my C lab. Of course, I was not a computer guy. And then, uh, I had another back in my third semester.

Djagmo: But that was a end, you know, after that, um, I, I was too confident. I thought, what back? All those things. But then, you know, the problems as engineering students we undergo is very different. It doesn't really, it didn't push me into seeking. Um, I was definitely reading a lot of books, but you do different reasons.

Djagmo: But I wanted to ask you, how much of this seeking ties back to your childhood?

Tejas Toro: I think to a great extent, uh, like I said, right, uh, I was seeking to, to find a space of wellbeing, happiness, and an empowered space. And, uh, that helped me be so curious, strongly curious, uh, about it. And I think I was never in a victim attitude.

Tejas Toro: Uh, it was always, you know, looking for solutions and that became, uh, the path for the longer life.

Djagmo: Yeah. Okay. Okay. But growing up, you know, during your school, um, and you said you're also the only child, you don't have a sibling. Yeah. And, um, through your teenage and all, how did you, did you have any tools to deal with your, you know, whatever you may have faced, or did you just, you know, um, somehow do the time and then somehow got to where you were in your engineering at least?

Djagmo: So how did that happen? I think, uh,

Tejas Toro: you know, uh, since if this happened in my life, like way early, um, I kind of got used to it. Or if I, if I don't know, maybe I was numb to it. Yeah. Okay. And, uh, so I, when I look back, and since I am in this field of coaching and all that, I also realize it was very difficult for me to experience and express emotions.

Tejas Toro: So, you know, the ability to experience and express emotions was pretty blunt in my case. Right. Right. Uh, and so that kind of, uh, insulated me from the difficult environment around.

Djagmo: So, yeah. Um, I was, uh, you know, uh, talking about, uh, the reason I asked you the question was, you know, somebody who's in that age group listening to you, uh, could probably, you know, uh, get some sort of an insight and you said, you know, you had numb and then, you know, probably, uh, the fact, uh, because of the fact that you couldn't express your emotions or, you know, find a Yeah.

Djagmo: Experience. Uh, but I'm, uh, but I don't think happened unconsciously. Unconsciously, yeah. Unconsciously. Okay, fine. So that's probably, you know, I, I, I don't know. Well, that ends well. So I think, uh, probably, you know,

Djagmo: numbness you

Tejas Toro: crap the other, in the, you know, Yeah. Right. So there were difficulties in the house, but I think the world has far more crap than what a house can offer. So that numbness time, help me walk through that. Absolutely. Until I found, uh, the source of life.

Djagmo: Got it. Great. Yeah. And, uh, when, when did you graduate?

Djagmo: Which year did you graduate? Uh, 2008. Graduated in 2008. Okay, cool. And, uh, when was this, uh, uh, experience, you know, when you accompanied your friend to the National Entrepreneurship Network and then you got your first speaking gig? When was, which year was that? Yeah,

Tejas Toro: 2010 or 11. So for two years, uh, so nine months I worked and I had really good salary.

Tejas Toro: And, uh, I was not spending, so I was pretty frugal because I was not into alcohol and smoking and I didn't go watching movies Yeah. And all that. So I kind of saved a lot, not consciously, but my habit, you know, because. Um, yeah, I just saved up. So that I think, uh, took me that kind of support in my journey ahead, uh, for a year or so.

Tejas Toro: And then always there was father there.

Djagmo: Amazing.

Tejas Toro: And the good thing is like he would, he would scold me, uh, but he would, he supported on the other side. I never felt guilty about it. Right. You know, and I did not feel guilty about it because I knew that I was not doing anything wrong. I was not taking money to party and go to movie and stuff.

Tejas Toro: Although I was having fun, that doesn't mean I was not having fun. Right. Uh, but it was a, you know, uh, it was a, uh, different, more conscious way. Yeah. Conscious way of having fun. Got it. So there was no guilt associated to that. I knew that whatever I was seeking or whatever direction I was going, uh, was a good direction.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Teis. Yeah. So Teis, um, you know, after your, um, uh, that, uh, speaking gig that you got right, uh, where, you know, you got a check, correct. Um, what, what happened at that point in time? So what was your thought process before that? Because I will take it that you did not know you could make a career outta your journey till that point.

Djagmo: And then you got a chance to speak and then they gave you a check, and then you realized, okay, fine, you know, you could probably make a living out of this. And, uh, yes. So what was your, did you even have a plan before that incident? If, if you did, what was your plan and how did that college experience getting a check, uh, kinda changed it and what happened after that?

Tejas Toro: Yes. So I think, uh, Earning one money was definitely an objective, but that was not the priority that time for me. The priority was truth, you know, higher proof and seeking and searching and understanding. That was the major, uh, focus area for me. So I was happy and I knew that I could earn money that way, but there was an intense drive towards the higher truth that was taking the precedence, right?

Tejas Toro: And so I, I didn't sit and plan that how much I could leverage this, uh, way of earning money. Rather, the first question I would've asked is, uh, which workshop would I like to attend with this money? Got it. Or where, where I would like to travel. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that was the approach. Uh, but you know, as I like after two, three years, like adding on to that, then of course there was a pinch because, uh, then in the house also everybody started and your relatives are looking at you with, you know, you can see it in their eyes and sometimes they start going away from you and stuff like that.

Tejas Toro: You can sense it, right. Uh, if you're a seeker of truth, you need to understand what's happening in your reality around you

Djagmo: as Yeah. That's also important can be Yeah. Truth is

Tejas Toro: not, yeah. Truth is not something out there in it's around you as well and inside. Right. I could sense that. I could sense that. Uh, and then I, like I said, uh, I always, I realized that this has to be a practical journey, not just esoteric, kinda a journey.

Tejas Toro: Yeah. And so I, I wanted to earn money and I was also thinking of starting some other businesses, not just, uh, kind of, uh, um, knowledge entrepreneurship. But, um, what I would like to say is in our journey as a knowledge entrepreneur, we need three raving fans. Three clients who become your raving fans, you know, and your journey is set.

Tejas Toro: Mm. You know, uh, and you need those three people who will go out and see. Most of the knowledge entrepreneurs, like you said, are not, uh, having the sales approach or they're not passionate about pitching. They're passionate about sharing their knowledge, but not pitching. Right. Right. On these raving fans, who, who are your clients, would go and pitch your services or your knowledge or what you have to offer because they have got value.

Tejas Toro: Right. Right, right. And they'll get value if your knowledge, uh, is relatable to them and it creates a change and difference in who they are or what they do or their results. Yeah. So I think in that journey, since I was doing a lot of workshop, I was sharing, uh, somewhere somebody referred, uh, and something happened.

Tejas Toro: And I think if I near now, I've, like, I have, uh, done workshop in eight countries now. I have coached Olympic athletes. I've coached politicians, business owners, returner of 5,000 current plus. I've coached them one to one. And so many things, you know, companies. But if I really trace back, if I go back, back, back, uh, I can find on, you know, one or two connections.

Tejas Toro: Like they were the clients who became raving plans and they referred, and that's how the journey started.

Djagmo: Great, great. Yeah. So te just, um, tell me, uh, about did you have these three raving fans? Yes. Yes. Okay. Uh, I mean, how did you get them?

Tejas Toro: Uh, so actually what happened, uh, was I did one workshop for a school.

Tejas Toro: Okay? Okay. And, uh, when I did it, and it for the 10th standard, this was, this was

Djagmo: year, I think around

Tejas Toro: two

Djagmo: 12. 12 a year after the college incident. Yes,

Tejas Toro: yes, yes. I did for a 10 standard students, uh, a short program. And, uh, they kind of liked it and they said, uh, can, so this was in the first half of the day and they said, can you take a one hour program for our teachers as well in the second half?

Tejas Toro: Okay. So I said, fine, no problem. And I did that, and this was like outta Pune. I was staying in Pune that this, I had traveled two, three hours to that place. A, B town, B town, you know, uh, school. Uh, and they said, okay, after the teachers program, they said, can you stay back? Our director would like to meet you.

Tejas Toro: Great. Okay. So I must be creating some value,

Djagmo: I guess. And, and, uh, sorry, all this was what you were 25, 24 at the, at at the time, yeah, yeah. Around, yeah, around that age. Okay. And it's not easy for people to take people of that age very seriously, especially when you're giving out, you know, such sort of sessions.

Djagmo: Yeah. Right, right. Uh,

Tejas Toro: I think, see, uh, I still get, uh, asked these questions, you know, that, how can you be an organizational coach at this age? Right. But for me, I never get that question in my head. Right. You know, that is not, uh, my focus. The place where I come from is there's something I can share. Uh, or there is not even, I, there's something in this world which is so valuable, you gotta see it.

Tejas Toro: Right. So when I say there's something out there in the world, it's not about my age, it's about that, you know, that thing is so powerful. Right? Right. Uh, yeah. So, uh, so the day the director he came to, yeah. He came to meet me in the evening. Uh, And he came, you know, around 8, 8 30 and we spoke till 1:00 AM you know, uh, we had dinner together and he was also interested in spirituality and, you know, all this self-help.

Tejas Toro: He was himself a PhD in child psychology. And so we had a great conversation and I think we clicked off. We became good friends that time. And, uh, interestingly, they have, uh, a very big industry, right. And school is the side

Djagmo: gig for them. Okay. Okay. And he's very

Tejas Toro: influential person. And, uh, then they, like they, they said, why don't you come and do some program for our employees as well?

Tejas Toro: So that was the first, uh,

Djagmo: opening your first fan as the director of that school. Exactly,

Tejas Toro: yeah. And who was the director of a big company as started in company. And once you started getting experience and you realized that. You know, uh, it's creating value. People are happy. Uh, you, that inner certainty starts building up.

Tejas Toro: Got it. Just, and, and he referred to other people in his community and, you know, that's how I think everything kind

Djagmo: of ruled. Got it. Uh, so really it's not even about three raving fans if you get, if you get one raving fan. Also it might do, but, uh, I think one of the important things to look here is that, especially when you are in a domain, you know, where, uh, things are not, see.

Djagmo: Please correct me if I'm wrong, right. Um, I've spoken to a few coaches. Um, you know, I've, uh, I've attended a neurolinguistic program myself, you know, which was a very important, uh, phase of my life. Um, I've done, uh, basic foundation and then I've done practitioner, and then I could not finish the masters because, uh, it was, it had had to do about modeling and stuff like that.

Djagmo: I did not. Lot of stuff was happening. This is very, um, this is not one of the. Accepted pain points by most people. Like, you know, they do not look at this aspect of their life or a business as a major problem, as a major pain creating problem and forget, you know, not, uh, you know, one thing is they don't even know there is a solution to it, but then they don't even see that as a pain for them to search for a solution for it.

Djagmo: So it, it could be really difficult as a business that you are in for people to come to you except corporates, you know, who would wanna do it as a extracurricular activity? A

Djagmo: of formality. But it's not looked as, you know, uh, like a sales consultant, you know, who's coming to correct sales or a marketing consultant who's gonna come in correct market. It's not looked at. And when you are in that, uh, domain with so much of conviction, uh, it's not gonna be easy to get, uh, valuable clients.

Djagmo: So, uh, here, I think anybody who's in the domain of coaching and stuff like that, I think not one single opportunity should be missed. I think that's what I, uh, take away from this. Because you went and did a program for 10 standard students, basically. Yes. And then they told you to root with the teachers and then probably some teacher would've gone and given a good feedback to the director and then, you know, the director wanted you and then just see where it went.

Djagmo: So if you take a, but also, uh, I think one probably good important thing that you did here was even though you were doing a program for 10 standard students, You took it extremely seriously and you did it with full passion. You may not have seen the difference between Oh, I'm just doing it for a 10 standard student.

Djagmo: Probably you did something right there. So all I'm trying to extract from this conversation is that, you know, despite who you are doing it for, I think you need to be hundred percent as a coach and I think authentic

Tejas Toro: and the real intent, I think the intent behind why you are doing what you're doing is very important.

Tejas Toro: Uh, if it is just money, if it's just trying to get reference and uh, you know, creating a customer, people are subconsciously gonna catch back. Got it. You know, uh, I would like to also share one experience Sure. That help the listeners understand probably the intent where I was coming from. Yeah. So I was, uh, I was invited in another, another of a B town, MBA college.

Tejas Toro: Uh, and, uh, the program started half

Djagmo: an hour. When you say, when you say Beatton, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. When you say Beaton, you mean second tier, third year cities? Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Tejas Toro: Right. Not metro, because, yeah. You know, so because, yeah. So another thing which I realized, uh, uh, into my journey was also when you go to these schools and colleges, you are facilitated, you are given, uh, facilitated.

Tejas Toro: Yeah. You're, and you coconut and, and stuff like that up and great personality. Later I realized they were not actually, uh, talking about, you know, me, they wanted to show the participant that they have got someone,

Djagmo: someone, yes, yes, yes.

Tejas Toro: Exactly. Was not about your greatness. It was their,

Djagmo: that was their, but you'll be positioned as an amazing guy because they need to sit down and listen to you.

Djagmo: Yeah, yeah.

Tejas Toro: Exactly right. So, yeah. So, uh, similar program, uh, started half an hour, eight late. Okay. Um, that shows the importance they were giving to it mm-hmm. For MBA college. Uh, and uh, then there was this, um, someone who came to introduce, And they were talking about how the founder of the institute, uh, thought about good of the society and for the betterment of the society started the college in 1960s and this and that, and that took another half an hour.

Tejas Toro: And then the director was invited and he took another half an hour in his long speech. And by this time, someone who's a seeker of truth, uh, gets frustrated when they hear a lot of lie, you know? And I was frustrated. And the first thing which I did when I went and stood there on the podium was I asked the student, do you think all this is true?

Tejas Toro: And I told them all this is lie, and I'm gonna tell this. I know I'm, I might be, you know, shoved off from here. I won't be called here, I won't be paid. But two, three years back, I was sitting in your position as a student and I was seeking answers, and I was trusting the whole system. And I was not. I, I'm, now, when I look back, I realize the system was taking me nowhere.

Tejas Toro: And I want you to tell you this. That this is system is not made for you. You have to find your own truth, your own path, and have the courage to live that life you want. Okay? You have been asked to wear the blazers in a hot Indian climate. That's not gonna give you job. You know what's gonna give you job is your competence, which doesn't come with right.

Tejas Toro: And this is what I spoke and the director just walked off. And you can imagine the awkwardness in the whole situation. Those students. Reached out to me, you know, after that. And some of them are still in contact after 10, 15 years. Yeah. Right. So the intent was not trying to build my career. The intent was trying to, you know, to experience the truth myself first and share what I was experiencing.

Tejas Toro: Got it.

Djagmo: And, uh, your age wouldn't have helped you either. Yes. Probably. Maybe I

Tejas Toro: may, maybe you can be that crazy in that age. Yeah. Whether you don't think about money

Djagmo: and business, we think. Yeah. No, I'm not gonna get into that. Okay, fine. You know, we'll just, no, but I, you know, I acknowledge that, um, you know, I had interesting thought pages, you know, when you were talking about all this.

Djagmo: But then, you know, I'm just gonna control and park it aside before I go on any further. Let, uh, step back a little bit and, um, talk to you about your company. Because, um, it's been, you know, we've been conversing about your journey and we kind of established what you do, but now let's kind of, you know, formalize that whole thing from you.

Djagmo: I'd like to listen from you. What is it exactly, you, because there are a lot of niche in the coaching itself. Uh, what is it off late? What have you kind of settled down into, you know, what is that is you want to work and what are the services you offer? Can, if you can, you know, share, uh, in detail about these service?

Djagmo: Yeah.

Tejas Toro: Yeah. So name of my company is Soul at Work, right? And, uh, the name comes from, uh, basically my intent that the spiritual, uh, thing should come into your day-to-day life, right? It should not be out there. So how do you bring it into the work? Right? Okay. And that's where the way word Soul at Work come and comes.

Tejas Toro: And if you look, the Gallup study says that only 16% people are brutally truly engaged in their work, which means 80% population is not engaged, which means they're not happy, they're not bringing their full potential out there. Uh, and, uh, they're just tagging along life, right? And so that's the concept of Soul at Work.

Tejas Toro: And I realized that as a coach, uh, you can only have a small impact, but you have to see how that impact will create a skill effect. How it'll create a ripple effect. So you need to throw the stone at the right place. Right. If you throw the stone on ground, it's not gonna create ripple. Yeah. So I realize that in an organization where people work, right, uh, the culture percolates top down.

Tejas Toro: And if I could influence, uh, and impact people at the top, it's gonna impact so many people. Let's say in an organization where there are 5,000 employees, right? If the people of the at the top start operating differently, then that is going to percolate to 5,000 people and then their families and so many people, right?

Tejas Toro: Right. And so what so at Work does is it works with business owners and their core teams to create a culture amongst themselves in the core team, which they would like to be modeled in their organization and which they would like to be. Got it. And how, how I do that is that basically I help them become aware of their patterns.

Tejas Toro: Mm-hmm. Okay. Uh, find their purpose, find their limiting beliefs, find how they approach the team building stages. I believe that there are three forces in an, in any relationship, right? The forces are connection, separation, and collaboration. And you need all these forces in any relationship, whether personal or professional.

Tejas Toro: And each one of us has a default response to the force of connection, a default response to force of separation. You know, someone might just keep quiet when there is a force of separation. Someone might become aggressive, someone might be aggressive outside, but uh, they're really scared inside, right? And opposite, you know, each one of us has a default response and that how we deal with those situations creates the culture and that culture, which we, uh, celebrate at the top percolates.

Tejas Toro: Right? Right. Uh, so I help them become aware of what is the culture they would want in their organization? What is their current culture, uh, where is it coming from? And helping them evolve as a team, as a core team, uh, to the culture they want. And when that happens, it somehow magically starts percolating in the entire organizations.

Tejas Toro: And we have found that, you know, the results, uh, tangible results, uh, have become, uh, transformed. It, it's a long-term journey, but it works.

Djagmo: Got it.

Tejas Toro: So, uh, one is this, and while doing this, Uh, I realized that, what I realized was that in an corporate journey, you know, there are four stages, which any typical employees goes through.

Tejas Toro: The first is self-management, right? Second is people management, right? Uh, third is systems and processes. And the, the topmost is vision and culture, right? Right. Most of the people, especially in India, are stuck at the fir, you know, bottom two layers, like self-management, which I also call task management, right?

Tejas Toro: And people management, right? We rarely go to system, process thinking, you know, and vision and culture, right? And then I realize, how do I bring this to, you know, India's, India's growing how, and to, for India to keep growing, we need future leaders, right? And they're getting created in the schools, right?

Tejas Toro: Right. So, how do I bring this understanding which I've got by going inside corporate, seeing what's happening there? What are the dyna realities of corporate world? How do I bring these learnings and bring it to school students, right? In between, like, uh, like I said, I started off with school, but in between five, six years I had stopped working with school because lot of my work had turned corporate and stuff like that.

Tejas Toro: But then, uh, after you achieve at a certain level and you have enough money, you kind of think, how can I contribute? And that's how this idea of bringing this to school has come back again. Mm-hmm. And I've just recently started a new company called Vina, uh, one month back. And the concept of Vina is that to bring these learnings from the corporates to the student out there so that we can create visionaries and people who are systems thinking right in the school, so that when they go out in the real world, they're equipped, uh, from a mindset perspective.

Tejas Toro: Yeah. So this is what I'm doing

Djagmo: currently. Great. Great. Uh, amazing. So, uh, you told, you know, in a very, uh, broad way or, you know, uh, you know, where. Uh, I have my own questions about this, right? Sure. I mean, not from what you are doing, but how, if I, if I, if I had to ask you, uh, please give me how many other types of programs that you might do, depending on the outcome.

Djagmo: Or let's say for example, somebody calls you up and says, Hey, you know what? They just, uh, I have a problem. Today's problem, I'll take. Okay. Something. Now we've been, we've been coming out of a pandemic and, um, we've all been working from home, especially the ones that are working for corporates and nine to five jobs.

Djagmo: Now, there are a lot of jobs that, you know, even the employees know that they cannot sit and work from home. That's not a problem. But then there are jobs, you know, where employees know that they can work from home. There is not really no need to go to office, but then the management thinks that the productivity is dipping.

Djagmo: They need to come to office Now, uh, the management can become, you know, Autocratic or, uh, sorry, uh, uh, you know, dictator, like, and then, you know, ask them all to come, otherwise you'll be fired. That's one way to do it, which is, I, I, which is, I don't think the most wise way to do it. They might lose the good folks and all those things.

Djagmo: Right? Now, let's say a corporate comes to you with this problem, they say that, Hey, you know what, uh, we think, uh, it's time for all the people to come to, uh, work and, uh, we want to put it in the most, um, relatable way possible or, you know, not in a very authoritative way, but you know, we want to convince them.

Djagmo: Also, make them also understand, do you have a program for this? This is just a random thought I'm getting, you know, do you have a program for address this? Uh, outcome. And, uh, what would you probably do? Uh, would you take this, would you take up this assignment, uh, pages?

Tejas Toro: Um, so I would first ask the them few more questions.

Tejas Toro: Mm-hmm. Uh, I would try to understand what is the intent behind, uh, the decision to get them back, uh, and see how that is really gonna help. Uh, and might also challenge, I might ask some probing question to understand that. Mm-hmm. And if what they're sharing really, really kinda makes sense to me. Mm-hmm.

Tejas Toro: Cause I should be convinced if I'm designing a program, uh, to certain level, I should be, you know, convinced, really design around that. I don't want to be selling people ideas or thoughts, which I don't

Djagmo: believe in. Got it. Essentially why I asked you the question, uh, because there are two parts of that question.

Djagmo: If you're directly asked, if you're directly told, you know, okay, this is what I do, I've then, you know, probably gone, gone and asked you. And nothing wrong about that. Also, I mean, uh, you know, somebody would, you know, who's doing the same thing as you. They would come and say, you know whats, I'm not gonna be really bothered about.

Djagmo: Why do they want, but, you know, they wanna, I'm a problem solver. I'm gonna help them solve. Problem trick into nice way is all what.

Tejas Toro: And for many, it's just taken

Djagmo: a box. So it's just taken a box. You just, you might, you just get the days. Yeah. You, the way you, you are saying you might end up convincing the management saying that they, it'll be good if they work from home. You know, they might go back convincing. Oh yeah. We don't really have to make them i'll,

Tejas Toro: ill not recommend my way to everyone.

Tejas Toro: Right. Uh, because I, I don't care about losing clients and I have lost many. Right. Uh, you know, but I could have been 10 x or hundred X more, uh, richer than what I am. Right. Uh, but I, I'm happy the way I am, you know, and I think, uh, by being who I am, the clients I have got, they are, like I said, they become my raving fan because, you know, there's some synergy, there is resonance.

Tejas Toro: They see my intent and authenticity, uh, in what I'm doing. And, uh, that has given, uh, more interesting dose, you know, uh, birds of same feather flock together. So if you get into a client who you are just getting for the sake of the money, uh, they'll open up doors to similar flags. Got it. But if you kind of get the right kind of your ideal client, they open up doors to more ideal flags.

Djagmo: Absolutely. You definitely, you know, you are the sole reason. You are responsible for what you are right now. The reason I'm telling you that is, you know, uh, every action that you do now is what is, you know, kind of setting you up for the future. And when you take that effort and then when you undergo sacrifices to do that, I think it only pays you rich dividends down the line.

Djagmo: Like you said, you know, you probably are finding yourself in the company of people who believe like you, you know, who think like you. Yes. And you know, uh, your work gets easier and easier and easier as you grow because you end up finding the same kind of people that you want to work with. And, uh, the lesson here is, you know, um, not the, not, not, not a lesson.

Djagmo: Uh, I, I mean, I, I don't do this in aul way, but only when there is something really interesting, I do not wanna miss it and, you know, I wanna repeat it. Um, is that, you know, uh, for the people who are listening, aspiring entrepreneurs in the knowledge domain who listening, um, there are two aspects, right? One is like, they just was talking about, one is money, but then, you know, they just didn't choose money to be the goal, but it was just a consequence of what he did.

Djagmo: But, you know, what? He focused, what, what theys has been focusing is making sure that he likes the work that he's doing and he wants to do some truthful work. He's been a secret of truth and then, you know, that has given him some intrinsic strength and, uh, bravery and some confidence to do what he's doing.

Djagmo: But I think as long as you do that, if not very soon, down the line, you're going to not only get some money, but you're also gonna do your work more effortlessly and enjoy your work. Um, this is what I wanna do, a share teis, and I'm, I mean, I'm sharing it because this is what I got from you. What have, you've spoken so far, uh, TEIS, um, now just, uh, going back to the example that I gave you, right?

Djagmo: I would like to get five such outcomes that is the most commonly soughted out in the world of coaching. Uh, you know, I just gave you an example. It could've been dumb example calling people from home to office. But what are you, um, uh, you know, approached for what are the, out from an outcome perspective Yes.

Djagmo: What are those top five outcomes for what you are approached for?

Tejas Toro: Right? Right. So first is like finding clarity of purpose. You know, a lot of time the business owners themselves are not very clear right. About why their company exists. Uh, maybe right in the beginning as a startup or in the mid, mid journey, you know, as the company starts going growing, um, as in a business, you tend to be opportunistic and you try, you tend to spread right?

Tejas Toro: You know, horizontally, right? And, uh, then you reach a stage where survival probably is no more a concern. But you are thinking how do you go ahead more effectively? Because when you spread too thin, uh, there are also a lot of places we are not, where you're not able to attend fully, right? And that creates different kind of challenges, right?

Tejas Toro: So then you, you want, you wanna be very clear, what, where do you want consolidate and how do you wanna go ahead, right? And so they, that's what a lot of business owners, um, are, they see. Secondly is, while scaling up. Uh, I find that lot of times companies, uh, have a challenge when they transition from a people driven company to a system driven company.

Tejas Toro: Mm. That is one of the most common problem organizations have. And this, uh, doesn't, the solution is not just bringing in the systems, right. Uh, the solution is in the mindset because, uh, the people who are in charge of a people driven company, the people in the charging themselves are the people who have power, who have brought the company to the level they it is already.

Tejas Toro: Right. So, you know, they take pride in it. Right. And these are the, exactly. The people who need to let go, uh, the sense of control to take. Right. And so that is one of a very big challenge most organizations face. And that's where I come in. I help them create a sense of, you know, new vision with the new purpose and some understandings from new human neurology.

Tejas Toro: And you help them, you know, transition to a different place, right? Where they see their role in a new life, right? And you help them release their insecurities of letting go the control. So that is another, uh, very big challenge, uh, which happens. Another challenge which organizations face is, uh, lot of peak performers who are individual performers.

Tejas Toro: When they transition to a higher role, their new role, they manage them to operate differently.

Djagmo: Right. Managerial positions if they have to move from an individual contributor to a managerial position. Ok. Yes. Yes.

Tejas Toro: You know, I have spoken to CEOs and CEOs from big conglomerates, and even in their conversations, the insecurity of job comes up.

Tejas Toro: You know, so probably they have earned so much al now in their journey and they're safe. Their kids are, you know, in us and, uh, the best places of the world, and yet they're insecure. Right? Right. So what is the state of mind? They need to be. They, they rather need to be having a vision. Right. A higher purpose than just their job.

Tejas Toro: Right. Right. Uh, so helping them transition to a place where they can see bigger picture, uh, uh, this is the kind of work I do along with what I said, you know, getting the core teams to be on one page and creating a culture which they want to be modeled in their organization.

Djagmo: Got it. Pages. And what about these, uh, you know, uh, team building activities and all those things, are that also part of your, uh, scheme of things?

Tejas Toro: Uh, see, earlier it was okay, but uh, now, uh, as you go in your journey, even I am evolving, right? Um, internally as well. And also my understanding of how, you know, the business world works, has evolved because in between, I also started, uh, manufacturing of bearing in. So I had, uh, that experience, which helps my coaching in the world.

Tejas Toro: Cause now I have practical experiences. Okay. And we had big failures and big success in that. So that kind of gave me a, a, a different kinda perspective, right? Um, uh, which you can't just have from a book, you know, when you really, really, uh, lose money, uh, and you still hold on to the journey, it gives you a different perspective.

Tejas Toro: So, um, Uh, yeah, no. So I, I now realize with all that evolution, that when, uh, HR or a business owner comes to you from their language right. You realize their intent. Right? Okay. And you realize whether it's just a tick in the box, is it just a day thing they want to do, and then most of them want to drink in the evening and have good time.

Tejas Toro: The learning goes for a talk, right? Uh, this is reality. You know, uh, we, we, as a long knowledge ex, uh, entrepreneur, you are passionate about, know, right. You know, uh, but you can't guarantee they are that much passionate, right? Right, right. Uh, so you have to see, uh, where would your knowledge be most valued.

Tejas Toro: Mm. And if you are doing that, then you are really valuing your knowledge. Right. Got it. Right. So in my journey, I have learned to say no. Mm. Uh, more often, of course you get tempted by the money, big money. But yeah, I, I've, I've learned to say no more often, and that I think has helped me a

Djagmo: lot. Got it. Teis, uh, I, I think maybe your answer, uh, you know, whatever you've told kind of answers this question, but still, I would want to go ahead and answer this question because you might have faced this problem in the earlier, uh, part of your journey.

Djagmo: You were talking about, you know, one of these experiences in a second, third year, m you know, MBA college where, you know, uh, you had this moment where you, uh, kind of, you know, had an outburst with the students and then, you know, uh, the director took half an hour. They really, you know, you kind of understood the way they look at this ATA speaker coming and talking.

Djagmo: Now, first of all, there are two things, right? Um, one is, As a coach, as somebody who's expected to come, motivate, raise the energy levels, you know, bring positivity and all those things. There is already a little bit of a pressure, maybe imposter syndrome, uh, you know, uh, for you to do, uh, and bring the outcome that is expected of you.

Djagmo: On top of that, when, you know, this is how they look at this entire activity. Pretty much like a fast for the sake of it, for the formality. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a mentally strenuous thing, you know, how, uh, to all the people listening, especially, how do you deal with this and how do you still get past this and succeed out there and do your job?

Tejas Toro: Uh, beautiful question. Uh, amazing. The way you framed it is, Really good. Yeah. Uh, I think, uh, in my beginning, uh, uh, of the journey, I used to come from a place of trying to convince right. You know, the importance of it and why this is right. And, you know, and as I progressed in that journey, it became from convincing to conviction, right?

Tejas Toro: Yeah. And then it kinda evolved to realizing that this is my purpose. This is who I am, this is my purpose of life, to share this principles. So there is no more convincing. And there's not even that con, you know, conviction that this is it. If you don't believe it's okay, I am here to share it. And this is my life purpose.

Tejas Toro: I'm not here to share with you. I am here to share with the world and for whomever it is meant for. Got it.

Djagmo: Theoretically, theoretically your answer is a valid one. It is easier said than done, but if I may, yeah. Uh, you know, uh, take five minutes, not more than two to five minutes. Sure. And you know how, you know, you easily said it is from convinced, convincing to conviction. Yes, I get it. You know, you don't go around convincing people.

Djagmo: You remove that mindset out of your mind first that you're not gonna convince. Cause if you're still convincing yourself, then it, it shows outside. So therefore, but how is this, you know, can you share simple tools to transfer from convincing? Yeah. So, see,

Tejas Toro: uh, if I am un unfortunately that is happening in the knowledge world.

Tejas Toro: A lot of knowledge is copy paste knowledge. Right. Okay, so if I take a knowledge from somewhere, maybe I hear to a YouTube channel or a podcast, I read a book and I just copy that on my presentation and I'm sharing that, and I have not experienced it. I have not reflected on it. Right. Then, uh, I don't have the conviction.

Tejas Toro: Right? Right. But like I said, uh, I was looking to work on myself. I was looking to apply it. So whatever business things I, I saw because after the point I asked, I also started studying businesses, right. And business dynamics. I applied it in my startup, right? And I, I have been part of two, three startup where I've put in my money, right?

Tejas Toro: And I have lost money, and I, I earned money. You know, one of my thing got me multiple X and it kind of covered the thing, right? But I was applying it and I saw that whatever this I have read or heard, this is really applicable in reality in the, you know, real sense on ground. And then you realize then you have a conviction.

Tejas Toro: So I think knowledge without reflection and experience is useless, right? So if you re reflect and you add value to that knowledge from your own experience and reflection, then you know it comes within from you from a different place altogether.

Djagmo: Great, great. They just, uh, great. I mean, see, this is how I interpret this, and this is how I take takeaway, you know, whatever you said.

Djagmo: Um, if you come across a great, um, stuff to share it with people, you further, you know, enhance it by seeing if it can be applicable to some part of your life yourself, uh, that adds more values. What you're saying, uh, you know, what you said just, just reminded me and took me back a few weeks earlier where I had this podcast with a person named, uh, Gotham Munshi.

Djagmo: Uh, he's in, uh, he's based in Bangalore. He runs, uh, um, marketing company. Uh, with a lot of, uh, latest, uh, tools and stuff like that. And he was a data science trainer before he ran a company that the reason we had him was because he was a knowledge entrepreneur and we wanted to pick his brain, how he ran his company and stuff like that.

Djagmo: And he told one thing. Uh, I was trying to, you know, I'm gonna ask you some of the questions that I asked him as well, uh, because this is a lot of people watching are also, you know, aspiring and money is one of the important things, right? I mean, uh, you also wanna know how much, how rich can you become or what all dreams can be achieved also.

Djagmo: And then, you know, uh, uh, Gotham, uh, just broke it down. Look man, how many working hours as a human being got in a year? You know, this is the number of hours you've got. And if you, he told, remove the academic professors and teachers outta this concept, especially the people who are outside of the system and who are teaching people, uh, skills to get jobs.

Djagmo: They cannot be a hundred percent into training. They need to be 60% practitioners of what they preach. Yes. And 40% trainers. The reason I brought this topic is you, whatever you said pretty much, uh, resonated with that. It echoed the same thing. Uh, I would've not asked you that question because I was not sure if how much, uh, applicability is to the coaching domain, but, uh, you kind of, you know, reiterated the thing that he shared.

Djagmo: So, yeah. Great. Uh, just wanted to share that with you. That's about it. Yeah. Okay, cool. Going ahead, uh, you know, uh, talking about, you know, soul at work. Um, you know, you've had a journey of ranging almost a decade now. Um, um, you, you know, you started off as a referral. Uh, you know, you started off by referrals and you know, you had your raving fans who referred you and stuff like that, but you also admitted that, you know, you're not the same to who you were 10 years back.

Djagmo: Yes. A decade ago. You know? Yeah. You are also evolving. You're also probably doing more significant things. You would want to train and coach leadership level people and not, uh, you know, uh, others. Maybe at this point right now, tell. How has this, um, uh, you know, from a business side, how do you position yourself?

Djagmo: Do you have a team or you are an individual who does everything? Uh, you know, how, how's your marketing, you know, if you can share, throw some light on all these aspects. Data?

Tejas Toro: Yeah. Yeah. So I think, uh, social media helps a lot if you can put, uh, create content.

Djagmo: Sorry. Do you, do you have a team or are, uh, are you an individual?

Djagmo: Uh,

Tejas Toro: so, so at work I'm an individual, but at, uh, on the side we have a team. Got it. Got it. And that also, so like I said, the knowledge which you are sharing, uh, are you applying it? Hmm, very important. It's very important. So I was talking to people and organizations about, you know, task management, people, management, system, process, vision and culture.

Tejas Toro: And I realize as a coach, as a trainer, I'm doing task management. I'm teaching others vision. And I'm just doing a task. You, for them, it's just a task to get done. Right. And so I realized, so where is my vision? Right. Okay. And you can't have a vision saying, I'll be a trainer, I'll be a great trainer. Vision is not about you.

Tejas Toro: Vision is about what you want to create in the world out there. Right? Right. And uh, so I realized my vision is to create visionaries. Right? Okay. And what's the best place to do it than in young minds, right? And so from there, uh, the re and, and when I say vision, it's not something you just write. I, I started feeling it in my body, you know?

Tejas Toro: And my whole thought was, so when you are thinking like a knowledge entrepreneur, like a self-employed guy, you have a very different thinking than, uh, business owner things. We say we are business owners. I have my own business, but you are self-employed. You're not a business owner, right? And it, it's a different place to think, you know, as a trainer or as a coach when I was traveling, you know, I, uh, you are like, uh, with juice, would I get to drink today?

Tejas Toro: But as a business owner, the question is, uh, how can I get my employees and the, the stakeholder Jews, which, how can I afford that? They can have juice, right? It's a d place to think altogether. Right. And that's how the, you know, vision has transformed me. When I got that vision, I think I've become a far better coach on the so matter side, uh, even though it's a single member, uh, thing because I have this experience.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Yeah. Uh, going back to, uh, you know, uh, the thing that you started off on my, sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to know from a team's perspective, because, you know, I've had conversations in the past with people, you know, you know, who've shared very, uh, simple things, but, you know, which had such a significant reason behind, for example, uh, I wanted to know whether you have a team or not.

Djagmo: Not to know whether you're an individual or not, but, you know, if you had a team, why did, why do you need a team? But if you didn't have a team, you know, how are you managing it all along? Because next question probably will be tying back to that, you know, how do you market yourself? You know, um, or is it still word of mouth for you?

Djagmo: Uh, that is the point that I wanna touch upon. Yeah. Yeah. I

Tejas Toro: think, uh, there is no formal way of marketing right now on the sole at work side. Sorry. Uh, what happened for me luckily was that, uh, I got into a conglomerate and it's such a big conglomerate with lot of companies. Uh, in that, uh, and you know, I started working with the mother company in that.

Tejas Toro: Hmm. And, uh, the head hr, they referred to the other companies in that got, and that itself is a so, such a big chunk of my work that I don't have to seek, uh, work outside. But I still keep getting, you know, because, uh, a lot of people, a lot of people jump jobs and, you know, they go and refer if they have really experienced something of value, they will, uh, want to be in touch with you and do something back for you.

Tejas Toro: That is what I've experienced. But of course that can't, you can't rely on all that. Yes. Uh, you need to have a formal sales, uh, way or a process which brings client in your funnel that that is also true. Right. Uh, I.

Tejas Toro: Not because of the need, but maybe because I have evolved in my thinking, you know? Right. Uh, but not from a financial perspective. Uh, even if I continue being not a sales guy, just doing the things which I'm doing, there's more than enough work I can handle right now. So you don't have to have it, but, uh, if you have it, uh, but I also think maybe the, uh, you know, uh, as a knowledge entrepreneur, you are so much passionate about your knowledge that you kind of discount the marketing and sales, right?

Tejas Toro: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and, and that is what's actually gonna get you money.

Djagmo: Got it. It's a very contradicting thing, but still you gotta trust the process, right? Yeah.

Tejas Toro: Uh, so, but, uh, if you are really passionate and if you have to master your knowledge, you have to be really focused as well, right? If half of your mind is in sales and marketing, uh, then.

Tejas Toro: Uh, it's difficult to really master what you do, you know, from a knowledge perspective. And so it is important the question you ask, it's important to have a partner or someone in your team who does, that's their core personality and they balance off. Or, you know, you can have platforms like, uh, you know, one, one of yours or you know, any other platform which helps you reach out to potential client.

Tejas Toro: Got it. So you do what you're passionate at and the platform or the people around you do, uh, the sales, marketing and reach out

Djagmo: work. Got it. Pages, uh, You know, when we were talking about, you know, when I did my, uh, uh, research about you trying to get some information about who pages is, I did not find much information.

Djagmo: I didn't find anything on Vina, basically. Yeah. But since you brought it up, uh, I'd like to, you know, can you share what is vina? You know, uh, what are you trying to, you said that, you know, you are trying to, uh, make visionaries out, school kids and all that. Um, yeah. But you know, what is the full, you know, what's the model like?

Djagmo: Is it a not-for-profit? Yes. Or is it for-profit?

Tejas Toro: It's for for-profit. Okay. I'm a very practical guy. I want but money in a more meaningful way. Okay. By contributing and creating value. Okay. So the whole thing is, like I said,

Djagmo: lemme just, uh, clear out one thing here. The reason I asked you not for profit of profit is just, uh, you know, just to get that clarified because when you about and when I'm also guy who fail to understand, How do not-for-profit work it despite whatever the cause may be.

Djagmo: Right? Because the people who are working for it, uh, they all need to be incentivized in a big way. Because I had a conversation with another person a couple of weeks back who runs a company called Learn With Comics and, uh, that's not for profit. And they, you know what they do? They are literally, uh, converting all the C B S E curriculum into, uh, comic books.

Djagmo: Because, uh, the person who's doing this, you know, growing up, he found education to be really boring. And, you know, not, not all the children can take up these plain stuff from the textbooks, right. They some color and comics would add. But then, you know, I, I had a difficult time understanding why not for profit.

Djagmo: So that's the reason I asked you if it's not for profit. I think being profitable is what, uh, puts you, uh, in an accountable space and that pushes you to achieve more. Right. That's what I thought and that's the reason I asked you. But great. I'm happy that it's, uh, for profit with Yeah, please, please on.

Djagmo: Yeah.

Tejas Toro: So like I said, um, the, what I experienced in corporate and in the business world, I realized that, uh, the competence, which makes one really successful in corporatees or in business, Is not being given in the conventional education system. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so to, to bring this to youth schools are the best place because that's where most of those youth gathers, you know, kids gather, right?

Tejas Toro: So you'd rather go there rather than searching them individually. Now, uh, the thing which I realized because I had been working with schools earlier in the journey is that most of the school owners do not care about the quality of education. Right. What they care about are two things. First is money profit.

Tejas Toro: Second is they shouldn't get, have headache operating the school. They want to keep it easy on themselves, right? Uh, so I realize that no matter how great offering you have, uh, if that's not gonna contribute to their objectives, their intent of running the school, uh, it's not gonna, uh, go through their filter, right?

Tejas Toro: Right. Cause there are the filters to it. So there's a concept of primary customer. I'm the secondary customer, right? So you have to reach the end customer. You have this customer in between, right? Right. Who has different objectives, right? So their objective is profit, and their objective is making things easy.

Tejas Toro: Right? Now what I also realize working in corporates is the power of systems and processes, right? Systems and processes make things efficient. Uh, they minimize losses. They, uh, they cut cost to a lot of extent, and they create scalability, replica, and stuff like that, right? Right, right. And a lot of this is missing in the schools.

Tejas Toro: You know, a lot of these things are randomly happening, you know, uh, most of the schools owner may not be involved in management. Uh, who is in charge of management is principal who is sitting there because they have an academic experience, not a leadership or management experience. Right. You understand?

Tejas Toro: And so they're operating from their own reference Correct. Or model of the world. So what I realize is, uh, if we can pitch to the school owners that we will help you cut cost by bringing in systems and processes by making things more smooth in your, in your school. Mm-hmm. So that you have less headache, you can easily manage the school.

Tejas Toro: You cut cost, we also help you brand and position. Mm-hmm. Okay. Uh, so we are actually helping the owner get to his intention. Mm-hmm. But, but you have to agree to make your school an experiential and application based education. Okay, so we are offering you a service which is like a, which will cost you around file like a month.

Tejas Toro: But we are ready to give you that in one 10th or one fifth of the price. But we are going to, so, and we will train your teachers, we will train all the stakeholders in bringing experiential and application based education. Mm-hmm. And that is going to help you differentiate your schools from other schools.

Tejas Toro: And again, we are targeting, uh, tier two cities. We are not targeting metro, right? So think about this, a tier two cities probably have like a 50 schools, right? And most are like claiming same things. Now if you go there, you and, and if you look at the profile of teacher, unfortunately teachers are the most unpaid.

Tejas Toro: Underpaid, yeah. Yeah. Underpaid. And, uh, probably it's just a way of living for them rather than passion. And so the competencies is a big question, right? Yeah. So the entire future of a kid is dependent on them. So what we do is we train the teachers on experiential and application based education. Mm-hmm.

Tejas Toro: Okay. We train them, we help them execute it, and we also create an audit mechanism where we see that it's being done in the right way. Got it. So we work on two fronts on the school, on the management, admin side of the school, help them cu cut costs, uh, getting more student by positioning them differently and on the academic side by bringing this practical education.

Tejas Toro: Got it. And that, and then we also involve the parents. So essentially we are tapping all the stakeholders. Got it. And, uh, so I will share something, uh, with you. So while going to these corporates, I came across a lot of other consultants from KPMG and Deloittes and, you know, uh, the Big Four, right? And what I realized about the business model of this Big Four was that these big, big Four, their name Big Four, but lot of the consultant who came in were pretty young, right?

Tejas Toro: You know, so what these big fours do is they hire talented people from big college who are young, who don't have so much experience, and they train them quickly on the job, right? So a, uh, a company is paying. For the name of the Big four, but who is coming to your place is fairly young person who is getting trained on the job.

Tejas Toro: Right. And that is, uh, that I, we are modeling that in our, with Diana, we are taking bright people who care about education, who want to uplift the education in India. They might not have lot of experience. They're okay getting paid less, but we really train them up very fast. Got it. We really expose them to, you know, uh, how they, uh, how they could contribute to an education ecosystem and we put them, uh, in these schools and that's how we plan to

Djagmo: scale up.

Djagmo: Got it. They just, yeah, they just, um, you, you, you, you spoke, you know, you told that VI is, uh, initiative by you where you are trying to make visionary out of, uh, the children also, right? Uh, replicate. Yeah. Because you said you kind of saw a gap, uh, in the corporates and you thought, you know, it could probably help cause the leaders were gonna come, uh, lead the nation or any organization are coming from schools, and why don't you go and make an impact right at that level?

Djagmo: Um, what is a link between, uh, this thing that you said, you know, um, may I know, uh, I was understanding it like this. Now you said there is a way you need, you know, you spoke about primary customer, secretary, customer or end customer. Um, you know, you have to go through the school owners to go and make an impact to the students as well because you need to first go, uh, fulfill the school owners' outcome or their dream.

Djagmo: Otherwise, you know, they're not gonna be bothered about what you want to do to the kids. Yeah. Uh, you're doing that by helping them cut costs and uh, you know, you are cutting their expenditure. Uh, therefore, you know, that could be a reason for them to pay you. So you bring in systems and processes. Yeah.

Djagmo: You are literally figuring out a way to pay yourself. Giving them the idea. Yeah. You are helping them to help you get paid. And then you are, uh, introducing the concept of experiential learning and application driven education. Um, now surely you think this is what is gonna help, uh, children become visionaries or is there another separate program to kinda, you know, help them get their own award?

Djagmo: Yeah,

Tejas Toro: yeah, yeah. So there are modules designed, so we, we have already hired some, uh, educationist who, who have a different perspective to education, who experienced to know how currently schools are happening and what needs to actually happen. Got it. Uh, and the principal like neurolinguistic programming and others for which people pay a bomb for a five day program.

Tejas Toro: Right. We are converting that into their education, you know? Got it. Their syllabus.

Djagmo: Got it. You're kind making mainstream now. It's not some extracurricular stuff. Exactly. Exactly. Great. Great. Yeah, I think this is a conversation that always comes up when they say that, you know, uh, people undergoing health issues, people undergoing financial health issues, they all say that, you know, all these things must be taught in school.

Djagmo: Uh, but you know, yes, all, uh, irrelevant things are taught in school and then we are not equipped with the most life skills that we need. I think probably that's, this could probably all those things. Great stages. Yeah. Uh, I think, um, was not really a topic of discussion for this podcast, but I would love to, you know, back future, uh, just talking about, and you know, how that is.

Djagmo: Come up, uh, so far. Yeah. Uh, going back to your training, right. Um, your training business, your coaching business and all. So, uh, a decade back you started off. Right now, you know, you're kind of spreading your wings, your learning, whatever you've learned from your training, you're trying to implement and create new businesses and new solutions.

Djagmo: Um, this is, you know, coming back to my, uh, perspective about, uh, aspiring trainers who are listening here. Uh, when you started off where you were full-time into training and coaching, how many hours a month would you typically spend coaching, uh, out there?

Tejas Toro: Hmm. So I think, uh, yeah. When I started off it was more as a trainer rather than a coach, because there's a difference.

Djagmo: What is the difference between a trainer and a coach?

Tejas Toro: Yeah. The trainer is basically providing skills and knowledge or way of doing things, uh, to, you know, the participant coaching is more about helping them recognize. Uh, what's within them, what they want and ways to reach them, helping them recognize what's stopping them.

Tejas Toro: So know, throwing light and what already is within them. Got it. And around them.

Djagmo: And, uh, uh, how did you transition from a trainer to a coach?

Tejas Toro: So I realized, uh, that training, uh, helps, but the impact was limited. Okay. You know, what I realized was that a lot of corporates or even business owners would want a training for their employees.

Tejas Toro: Right. Okay. But, uh, would they say for the training, no, because they feel they know everything and you know they are there. But does that mean they don't have any problems and challenges? They also have Right. Right. But the way they learn is different than someone who is, uh, typically sitting for a training, you know?

Tejas Toro: Right. Because they have more experience, they have deeper understanding. They probably themselves are peak performers. Right. So they generally don't like to be told what to do. Right. They like, they, they take pride in discovering it themselves.

Djagmo: Right, right, right. So

Tejas Toro: yeah. So I realize that if I really have to make an impact, instead of working with thousand employees, you work with one person there.

Tejas Toro: And if you have to work with one person, you have to, uh, work the way that will help them. Right. And which I realize coaching is far more appropriate in that situation.

Djagmo: Got it. DiUS now, you know, uh, coming to the viability of this whole training coaching business, um, I've heard some people say that this is a very saturated market.

Djagmo: Uh, is that true? Do you agree with that?

Tejas Toro: I think a lot of people come and go in this domain. They see easy money, right? Uh, they see anyone can print a card and open a website and, uh, become, call themselves a trainer or a coach. Uh, a lot of people who take early retirements, uh, they come into this domain.

Tejas Toro: And so there is no, uh, uh, I would like to share an experience which I had, you know, uh, one of my clients, I was coaching him, uh, one-to-one business owner with, uh, he had 2,500 employees, okay? And, uh, I coached him and he said, you know, I want you to help me train my people as well. And I told him that I will not be doing training.

Tejas Toro: So he said that, why don't you get trainers, you know, Because you know, now what we have done, you know, where I want to take my organization. And he did not have a formal learning and development, uh, team, uh, do, uh, yeah, yeah. Team or, uh, department. So he said, why don't you just get me some trainers? And so I kind of reached out to one of a co trainer I knew and I asked her, you know, this is what we need.

Tejas Toro: Uh, this is the kind of training, uh, uh, the client needs and there'll be so many trainings in a year. We have to cover 2,500 employees. So she said, we have a WhatsApp group, o of trainers of across India. Uh, do you want me to put this requirement on that group? And I had no idea what was going to happen. I said, okay, put it there.

Tejas Toro: And I put it there. And you know, my phone started ringing and I had a call from across India, west Bengal, everywhere, people calling with me. 30 years of experience, you know, uh, 20 years experience. Their profile picture was like, uh, with ties and blazers and this, this, you know, all that. Uh, and so what happened?

Tejas Toro: I asked this lady who, who, who put it on the WhatsApp group, you know, uh, that how much should we charge? And, you know, um, I had, uh, this conversation of budget with my client and he had given me a budget. So I had a X figure, which I would be passing on to these trainers, okay? And she told, when I asked her, how much should I know pay for this kind of a training, I was surprised.

Tejas Toro: She said, what she shared was less than half what I had in my mind. Okay. Okay. And I, and she put that, that price also in the message, WhatsApp message. And I was surprised people with 30 years of experience are ready to work at this low price. Okay. And that was a surprise for me. And there I kind of opened up to me that, and like, like you said, probably their things are saturated, but since I was surprised, shows that I had never experienced

Djagmo: it.

Djagmo: Mm.

Tejas Toro: Got it. You know? Yeah. So, and I, like I said, you know, uh, birds of same feather locked together, maybe I was starting the right clients. Right. Uh, and so they were opening those to the right clients who were ready to pay and who were valuing the, uh, the thing which I was doing. Right. And of course, there were people who, who would, uh, want to pay less and Right.

Tejas Toro: The initial, I would also do it, you know, I, I, uh, I was doing it because I needed money that time. But I quickly kind of realized that, uh, no, if I am not valuing what I am doing, nobody else is gonna value, right? And like Osho was once asked, uh, that you are a spiritual guru, then why do you charge people for your program?

Tejas Toro: And he replied, people do not understand value. They understand price. Yeah. And you know, I recognize that pricing is a great positioning tool as well. You know, when you prize less people subconsciously, uh, position you somewhere, right? And when you prize yourself higher, subconsciously they position you differently.

Tejas Toro: They might not afford you, they might not buy your services, but you're positioning yourself

Djagmo: differently. Brilliant. I mean, uh, no, not that this is not a very unknown thing. This is a known thing. Yeah. Uh, no doubt about it. And there are, uh, number of examples right in front of Horizon, everyday lives, how different products Yeah.

Djagmo: Which offer the same value. Yeah. Just because of the way they price themselves and they make a choice that they're gonna be available only to some people. Uh, there is a thing. And I think this is also something that the trainers can take away from, but it all boils down to how much it can work for them in their, um, you know, practical lives.

Djagmo: But, um, uh, they just, uh, help me understand, uh, you know, uh, gimme a, a figure, uh, as trainers in India, right, from your experience, let's leave the outliers, right? There are ones that who do, you know, even for free for whatever reason, and there are ones who are probably called as celebrity coaches and trainers who charge lacks of rupees even for three day workshops and two day workshops and stuff like that.

Djagmo: But aspiring trainers or aspiring coaches, you know, who are probably up, uh, up and coming in the mid twenties, uh, what is a realistic, uh, kinda aspiration they can have, um, uh, uh, you know, in terms of how much can, can they really make in a, in a year?

Tejas Toro: See, I think the whole approach of. Uh, I think as knowledge entrepreneurs, you create that market.

Tejas Toro: You know, your question reminds me of a scene from, uh, there's a conversation between Chank and the king, right? And Chank has approached, uh, and kind of insults him and replies saying,

Tejas Toro: so what he means is says, a knowledge entrepreneur is not a simple guy. You know, he's constantly experimenting and creating new things and what he's creating and experimenting with, if it is of real value, he can create entrepreneurs who will pay for his journey. You know, so what I, yeah. If you have to have conviction, you know, you don't have to fit in.

Tejas Toro: Right. You know, uh, and if your knowledge, if you are a knowledge entrepreneur, you are passionate about it. Right? Right. And if you are passionate about it, you would have mastery. So learn to value yourself. I, that's what I'll say. And, you know, just to bring it really down to numbers and not just Terry, and just yesterday I signed up a client, uh, whom I'm gonna coach.

Tejas Toro: Uh, I signed up for 10 Laies and he is an Indian Intune, so this is a possibility. Of course not everyone kind of pays that. Yeah. But I have positioned, because now I see that I have to take care of Vina as well. Right. So, you know, I'm positioning myself differently now. Correct. Correct. Yeah. Okay. So that is a possibility.

Tejas Toro: Five years, 10, 10 years down the line, I wouldn't have believed this was possible. I, and to be honest, I have worked for 5,000 a day as well in the beginning when I was doing it for schools and, you know, places like that. Got it. But, so you can, I think, you know, there are all kind of customers ready. There are people who are ready to pay there, are there because there are a lot of business problems.

Tejas Toro: You know, India is a thriving economy right now. And with thriving economy, there are opportunities and there are problems and knowledge entrepreneurs can solve both, both opportunities and the problems. You just have to position yourself, right? Uh, bring a real value, real situation, a real solution. And if you're doing that and if you're communicating it in the right way.

Tejas Toro: Um, I think there is lot of scope for knowledge entrepreneurs, but don't try to copy paste if you're copy pasting the content or even if you are copy pasting the approach. Right. You know, at the same time, I also believe conventional sales marketing doesn't work, right? Because as an knowledge entrepreneur, uh, you are selling something intangible and the value and power of it is in the experience once they get results out of that knowledge.

Tejas Toro: Right? Right. Uh, so conventional sales, uh, you have to look at it very differently and I think there's no one solution. Uh, you have to consider your personality. What suits you, you, you know, you might be a good writer then put, put stuff on LinkedIn. You might be good at forecast. Do that. You know, whatever your personality is, you need to position yourself in that way.

Tejas Toro: And, and I think there opportunities are there at all level. If you, if you wanna work at low cost, there is volume game there. If you wanna work at high cost, there are people ready to pay.

Djagmo: No, I really appreciate, uh, you for choosing to give, uh, you know, this sort of an answer and not really, you know, giving out a number because, uh, this is definitely, you know, um, there cannot be a number, right?

Djagmo: It, everything boils down to how you position yourself, how you value yourself, you know, and stuff like that. So I think, um, to all the listeners who are, uh, listening, uh, if this answer, uh, if you think it did not help, uh, what I'd like to say here is that, um, you. There is a possibility for you to charge whatever you want.

Djagmo: Uh, there are people out there who will pay whatever you want. Um, you just have to figure it out. Uh, if your, um, value, uh, is worth that much, you need to build. Value or content or, you know, whatever you're gonna go and deliver, be that much valuable. Uh, but, um, uh, you know, which, which is, which is a good, good answer.

Djagmo: I mean, it is, you know, uh, you don't have to be down thinking that there's no cap, right? What better than not having a cap on what you can earn? So there's, you know, there's no limit for you and you can go. So they just, just shared that he signed somebody for 10 LA Rupees and, you know, I think everybody should start aspiring for that.

Djagmo: And they just, uh, this, this, uh, 10 LAX is for, is like, is it like for a fixed number of hours or is it like, uh, yeah,

Tejas Toro: this, this would be, uh, over a one year period. One year period. But there are like few days in where we connect.

Djagmo: Got it. But still, you know. Yeah. Uh, if, if it's one year or two years, man, I mean, getting 10 lacks, uh, contract is, it gives you so much of certainty and you know, it allows you, to your mind, it helps you so much on a mental level.

Djagmo: Uh, so I think, um, that's what all the coaches, uh, should be aspiring for. But they, uh, but you know, I have another question. Yeah, especially, you know, for, uh, coaches or trainers who are in a position, you know, where they go talk to a client or, you know, or a company. And then there's a time when they have to give out a quotation.

Djagmo: Right Now, uh, you've, you've, you've had experience, um, in working with, uh, companies of different sizes and, uh, your pricing is not gonna be the same for everybody, right? And there, there, there will, there will come a time when you need to figure out somehow what could their budget be? Or if you cannot figure out what their budget is based on the, their, their company says you kind of had to figure out how much they would've allocated, or, you know, how much would they be willing to pay.

Djagmo: Can you share some insights on how, uh, coaches and trainers can navigate this coaching problem?

Tejas Toro: See, I think size of the company, uh, doesn't actually give you anything because a lot of time, big companies, lot of trainers are approaching that, right? Right. So they have access to a lot of, uh, trainers. If not you, then somebody else is always there, right?

Tejas Toro: And they have negotiation par, you know, uh, and they do bargain because they have a formal learning and development team, uh, department, right? And so the, the one of the key of the person sitting there is to negotiate. Got it. Right? So they are pretty sometimes tough to really get the money. But in what I've realized is small company growing very fast and who see massive growth in front of them and who, who see problem, who recognize problem in that growth.

Tejas Toro: So they see that we are right now a 50 company, but we can become a thousand company. Uh, but these are the challenges which will stop us, right? So for go, you are bringing a solution from 50 cr, 2000

Djagmo: cr, right?

Tejas Toro: Right. Now you have to ask yourself, do you have I have any solution like that? Hmm. Or is my solution just gonna make them feel good for a day and go back and Right.

Tejas Toro: You understand? Right? So if you can bring that solution, 52,000 Sierra, of course you're not a magician. You know, you, you don't just do that and things change. But do you have really a solution which, which you believe, and which really the, the client also kind of starts believing once they taste it, right?

Tejas Toro: Uh, then you can charge. And, and let me tell you, it's not very different. You know, there's content, whatever content, it's al already out there

Djagmo: free of costs. Yes, yes, yes.

Tejas Toro: So ideally, uh, a company, uh, can open up, uh, a YouTube video and see that for an entire day and get value. Yeah. Knowledge. Yeah. So it's not just about knowledge.

Tejas Toro: You know, what is your unique perspective you bring to on the table? Right? And is that unique perspective helping them apply it, uh, in their business on ground? Right. And for that, you need to be a good listener. You need to be a good observer because when the client, uh, reaches out to you, you don't just say, okay, okay, I have a product for you.

Tejas Toro: Okay, here's the, there's the cost. Rather, you ask them a hundred questions. Mm. Okay. You understand What are their problems? Sometimes they don't know their problem. They'll say, we need a team building program. Right. But while. Okay. Uh, and why, why, why, why, why inside that. Mm-hmm.

Djagmo: Right?

Tejas Toro: Go to that. You know, and when you really go to that and you might find, uh, something which they have not discovered, right?

Tejas Toro: And then you throw light on that and you show a solution. Now you are trusted by them for your confidence, right? Right. They realize you're not just a trainer who's gonna come for, you know, team building and because they're not just coming to you, they're going to 10 other trainers for team building, right?

Tejas Toro: So, so this has happened to me. You know, I pitched to one company. In fact, they reached out to me and asked them these questions and the person said, actually, even I don't have these answers, right? So, so what I proposed to him was because he was from HR department, I proposed that for whatever department you want this to happen, Can we have a quick 15 minute, uh, you know, online thing where they share their things and whoever the key, key stakeholders are.

Tejas Toro: And, uh, we decided a date and we had a 15 minute thing. And after the call, they appreciated the approach because they still hadn't committed or paid, but I was giving them time and like I said, I was authentically trying to find something for them. Right, right, right. It was not a sales pushy thing and they appreciated that.

Tejas Toro: Right. And now you have already differentiated yourself. You know, now 10, 10 people have quoted, they have sent their emails with nice designs and share their website links and you have not. Right, but you have a different place in the client's

Djagmo: mind. Brilliant. Simple, but very effective. I think, um, uh, people just, you know, especially once in the domain, I think one of the key things for you to get land good clients and high value clients is we really come from a place of you want to solve a particular problem for them.

Djagmo: Yes. And don't be worried about what you already have. If it takes, uh, for you to spend some time and, uh, design or start from scratch, a program that you have to build for them. For that, you need to first of all figure out, ask a lot of questions, filled with whys. I think that's what they just, uh, just said.

Djagmo: And it naturally is gonna, uh, take you to a place where even the clients are gonna discover new things and they are having a demo of your session right then. And they're like a, and there's no reason for them to not think about if you do such things. So great. Teis. Um, I think, uh, I've, uh, you know, I've had a lot of questions, but the fact remains this, that a lot of your answers to just one of my questions have covered a lot of things.

Djagmo: I need not even have had to probe you beyond a certain point because you covered everything probably you knew where I was coming from, uh, from your experiences, something. So thank you so much. This was an amazing session for me personally. I hope the listeners, I'm sure the listeners are gonna get a ton of value, especially people who can relate to this industry.

Djagmo: Um, I'm sure they're all gonna be nodding while listening, uh, your, um, responses and your, uh, you know, whatever you have to say. So thank you so much. Um, can't wait for this to go out there, get published. Um, and, um, I, you know, uh, to us is not a time that's doing justice to get, uh, things out of you because I really wanna talk about, I wanna have a separate podcast with you, uh, about, you know, your.

Djagmo: Personal spiritual journey because, uh, the, when the first 20 minutes I was like, I had to literally focus and then bring myself back to this, uh, agenda. Cause I myself, uh, have been, um, a reader of all spiritual things in India. And, um, I could relate. So I, I probably at some point we can have that conversation and, uh, you know, I'd like, I'd love to deep dive into probably a year down the line when you are, you know, when you have something going on.

Djagmo: So I can't wait for that as well. So all in all, thank you so very much, uh, for taking your time out. Pleasure. Uh, it's been a wonderful two hours for me. Uh,

Tejas Toro: A very nice, energetic, enthusiastic state of

Djagmo: mind. Thank you so much. Because coming from a train, uh, you know, from a trainer coach who's dealing at the highest level, uh, you know, uh, I really take that, uh, as a compliment, you know? Thank you so much. This podcast is brought to you by Edison os a no-code EdTech platform to operate an online education business.

Djagmo: Knowledge. Entrepreneurs can use Edison OS to sell online courses from their own websites, manage online masterclass, launch mobile learning apps, sell online practice tests for competitive exams, run online learning communities, digitizing their offline tutoring business, use it as a learning management system, and a lot more cases in the domain of knowledge commerce.

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