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20th Feb 2023
2hr 54mins

Episode 12 | Ajay Naveen | Maple Assistance

Ajay Naveen is a Canadian PR aspirant and IELTS practitioner who guides others on how to crack the IELTS exam and obtain their Canada PR visa.

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Djagmo: Welcome to the Knowledge Entrepreneurs Show, where we celebrate the innovators driving change in the education industry at Edison Os. We've worked with over 500 knowledge entrepreneurs to turn their EC ideas into profitable businesses. In today's episode of the Knowledge Entrepreneur Show, we have AJ Navine.

Djagmo: AJ Navine is a Canadian PR aspirant and I e lts practitioner who guides others on how to crack the ISS exam and obtain their Canada PR visa without the need for expensive consultancies or immigration lawyers With the CLB nine and 10 band score, Ajai has processed his own PR application without spending a dime and has helped 10 plus others to do the same with six of them already in Canada.

Djagmo: His goal is to assist 500 plus PR aspirants to crack aisles and obtain their PR visa by the end of 2023. So aj, first of all, you know, thank you so much for, um, accepting the invite to be a part of this podcast and, uh, pleasure. Pleasure. I've, uh, it, you know, even though I've told you what is the purpose of this podcast, uh, I'll kind of, you know, um, run it through to you again, uh, so that you know, uh, the next 90, 220 minutes, we are aligned on that.

Djagmo: And, uh, so as the name, uh, suggests, you must have, you know, figured out by now, uh, the Knowledge Entrepreneurs Show is a show by the knowledge entrepreneurs for the knowledge entrepreneurs. Okay. Our guests so far have been knowledge entrepreneurs, meaning any entrepreneur who's running a business by offering knowledge as a service, right?

Djagmo: It could be, you know, you who's, uh, helping people crack aisles and then get a pr. And, um, it could be other people you know, who are teaching music, uh, sports, and, you know, academics and all of these people. Or it could also be some people, you know, who are, um, building products around the education domain in software.

Djagmo: So that is also part of, um, this domain, the way we look at it. And, uh, but you know, when we have guests, um, we definitely do, um, you know, speak about their business, you know, what is their business and all those things. But mostly the purpose of the show is to, uh, talk about the things surrounding their business, you know, how it was started.

Djagmo: Under what circumstances was it started. What are the difficulties, highs, and lows in running the business? Um, you know, is it, um, the outcome of this podcast may not have to be okay, follow these 10 steps to become a successful entrepreneur, or something like that. In fact, we've had guests who've run successful academies and they've moved on to consulting business after 15 years.

Djagmo: Mm-hmm. So they were successful, but then they moved on. Mm-hmm. So, uh, this podcast can also throw light on, um, you know, what it takes to be an entrepreneur. You, you could be a, somebody who's listening, might be a teacher trainer, uh, but, uh, training in a company or teaching in a company being paid on a monthly basis, that's a different thing.

Djagmo: Mm-hmm. And then taking a leap to start your own business. And then, you know, after that, uh, it changes. Will you be still continue? You know, will you still be in a position to teach? Uh, will you have that, uh, bandwidth or should you become a businessman? And so students and, uh, all these things, what happens through this is that even their cup of tea, it not only is going to help them figure out how to run, it can also help them figure out whether it is for them.

Djagmo: And, uh, it could really, uh, save people from getting in and getting out, and they can rather decide, no, you know what? I will rather be a teacher and a trainer and focus full-time on that. That's where my strength lies and my focus interest lies. So I'd rather be that. So it could also help them like that.

Djagmo: So that is a purpose. So this, uh, podcast will also focus on, you know, aj, how you started your company, maple assistance and your journey, little bit of your personal, uh, stories and all those things, right? So that is what this podcast is gonna be. Uh, great aj. So we'll get started. My first question is a light one.

Djagmo: It's an open ended question. It's more personal because, you know, um, before we get to know anything about Maple assistance, I think it's very important to know ajai, the person, the person, uh, what was his growing up like, his childhood, and then, you know, uh, how did this, uh, whole project of maple assistance start off and stuff like that.

Djagmo: So, if you can walk us through your childhood, you know, and your journey leading up to this point, you know, where you're sitting here talking about maple assistance, that'll, uh, be an amazing start to this podcast.

Ajay Naveen: All right. So first of all, thank you so much for having me here. Uh, jug. So it's been a honor, it's a pleasure to be here with you and to give a basic introduction about myself.

Ajay Naveen: I was, uh, born and brought up here in Quator. So, uh, uh, a district here in Taru. And I had a, I should say that I, I really had a wonderful childhood. I was, uh, I had the privilege of, you know, going to a very light school here in my place. And in fact, my college, I did my engineering, electrical and electronics engineering from a very reputed institution here in Quator.

Ajay Naveen: It's called Quator Institute of Technology. And, uh, I, I mean, I wouldn't call myself an extrovert. I would love to be an introvert, but I don't mind speaking to people and I don't mind addressing people, you know, that was always been a part of me. So, right from my school days onwards, I really love performing on the stage and when people appreciate the performance, that actually gave me a hike.

Ajay Naveen: So that made me, you know, I felt that I should be there, where people are able to see me, where I delivered something and then people appreciate me. I really loved it. Right? So that was there, that was, that was part of me, right from my childhood. And I used to be a performer. And, uh, then and there when I got a chance in, even in school, uh, when there would be no volunteers to go to the friend and give a welcome speech or whatever, I used to be the one, I, I really didn't mind making mistakes.

Ajay Naveen: Yes, I was nervous and stuff, but I really didn't mind making mistakes. I, I wanted that attention. Maybe at that point in time, maybe that gave me a high, I don't know. But I was always there. Whenever an opportunity presented itself, I would love to grab it with both my hands and that's how it all started.

Ajay Naveen: So then what happened? Like I was part of an organization during my college days, uh, which was, um, it was very similar, like, uh, it was by the students. For the students, right? So there was a different category. Colleges. There was Tire, tire One Colleges, tire, two Colleges, tire Three Colleges. So we had the privilege of being there in the tire One Colleges and a Tire three, tire four college student.

Ajay Naveen: Uh, even though he's my friend, he didn't get the same exposure what I got. So this organization was formed for that and like we were addressing, uh, the stuff to the tire four colleges, tire three colleges. We were helping them out in, in terms of skillset and other training programs. I was an active member of all these things.

Ajay Naveen: And, uh, we started a company even when we were in our college days. So, um, at that time I still remember it's called Student Software Solution wherein like, uh, 12 heads from 12 different colleges were picked. And, uh, we were, we started a company and, uh, I started a company by name, a software solution. And that was during my second year, third year college.

Ajay Naveen: And, uh, we were able to get some projects, convince few people designing projects and small software projects, which we were able to do. And uh, um, among those 12. Our company did really well. And like I, I received an award from, uh, Mr. Pata. He was the one of the member, founding member of, uh, minery that point in time.

Ajay Naveen: So these things, you know, um, always, I mean, I felt that, you know, I had that urge towards starting up something when I, when I understood my passion as towards training, teaching people, interacting with people. I really loved doing that, you know, uh, helping people out on a particular skill set, you know, helping them manage stuff, educating them, whatever I knew, educating them on those things.

Ajay Naveen: So I really loved that. And also I had this entrepreneurial stint, so like, for a brief point in time. So I was really fascinated about this. And, uh, my college is really good at placements, so they somehow managed to bring a lot of companies and I was able to secure job offers and couple of companies. And now came the dilemma because, uh, it was a pretty good, very good m c company.

Ajay Naveen: Now, now, the dilemma was to whether start a company, which was my passion, or should I go be smart, take up an offer, which was a fantastic offer at that point in time. So, uh, my parents were not convinced in me starting a company like any Indian parent at that point in time. Uh, they were not, not at all convinced, uh, with me starting a business and stuff.

Ajay Naveen: Uh, but something told me that, you know, they should work, it should work out. I had good company, I had my friends who were also equally passionate, so I wanted to do this with them. Um, so I was, I, I spoke to them. I tried convincing them after a point in time, you cannot convince your parents, right? So, yeah, they, they accept it doesn't mean that they're convinced, right?

Ajay Naveen: So they don't have an option either. What happened was, like, um, at, at a particular point in time, like they said, like, okay, fine. This is what, if this is what you really wanna do, go give this a try. Maybe give it, they thought like, okay, this guy's going to give it a try for maybe a year or so, and then he's going to come back and maybe we'll get him another shot.

Ajay Naveen: It was the thing. But the moment I went ahead and I had a clear business plan, my, my plan was to, you know, educate students. My plan was to be amongst the students, educate them, help them out. Right? Right. And when I had a solid idea in my hand with the experience that I had, I was able to penetrate the market easily, uh, for some reason.

Ajay Naveen: And, um, frankly speaking, that was, uh, that was a setback to me because. I had early success. Early success is something that an entrepreneur shouldn't have. That's what I personally, uh, feel. Early success is really dangerous. Uh, frankly speaking, I heard early success. Things went on well, and my parents okay, then they felt, okay, this guy is doing something with this life.

Ajay Naveen: Not sure what he's doing, but he's doing something with his life because, uh, I was not depending on them for money. Uh, I was not giving them money, though at the same time, I was not dependent on them, but we were registering a company. We had an office space, we had people working for us, and all those things were set up.

Ajay Naveen: And when my parents were saying like, they were pretty happy, uh, not so convinced, but they felt like, okay, this guy is up to something, so let's see, let's give him some more time. So things went on, and that's how it all started. You know, uh, frankly speaking, I would give the credit. You, you asked a very, uh, really good question.

Ajay Naveen: You asked about the childhood. I would credit this entrepreneurial sting to my childhood, because if not for that environment, if not for the people who, uh, who are surrounding me, I, I really don't think I would've chosen this particular path. So, to answer your question, short, fantastic childhood. Uh, amazing parents and, uh, great friends.

Ajay Naveen: So I, I enjoyed it, frankly speaking.

Djagmo: Got it. Aj? So, uh, aj, uh, so you up until now, uh, haven't worked at all after your graduation? Nope. You only, okay, great. You've been an entrepreneur all long. Amazing. Um, so you said, you know, after your graduation you got a couple of offers, but then, you know, you were always passionate about starting up and then you started up, uh, what was, can you, uh, deep dive into that first startup of yours?

Djagmo: Um, what was it about, and, uh, I mean, did it sustain you? You spoke about a very interesting concept about how an entrepreneur shouldn't have early success. It's dangerous. Um, I think, uh, I might have experienced that a little bit and, uh, I'm sure a lot of people resonate with that as well. So what happened?

Djagmo: So when you say that it means you were successful initially, and then something happened and then probably, you know, you, uh, you, you know, you went, uh, so what happened after that? Um, and you know, if you can, if, if, if you can also share the details about what that startup was and then, you know, how long was it successful and why did you say that, you know, it's, um, dangerous for a entrepreneur to have this early journey successful.

Ajay Naveen: Okay. Right. Fantastic question once again. Um, okay. So I'll answer the first part of the question. So what happened, what was my startup? I started up a company called As Happy Miles. Okay. Happy Miles was the name of the company. So we were into, uh, education sector. We were, uh, uh, targeting colleges and schools.

Ajay Naveen: We were training people on placements. We were helping them out on aptitude, on clearing their interviews and, uh, building their personality and stuff. So the thing was, um, uh, initially when, when I started, I was doing all my research, you know, um, I, I, I didn't start my company here in Clamato, even though I'm from Quator.

Ajay Naveen: This is my, uh, battlefield. I, I never started my, uh, journey here in Quator. Rather, what I did was like, I, we, we made a research, we did a research, and we understood that, um, there are tire two, tire three cities here in Tado, which requires our services more, right? So I don't have to do, I don't have to lift the heavy part, like how I have to do here in Quator in case when it comes to a city like Quator or Chennai, what really happens is that there are already a lot of players and the institutions are, uh, having a bit of exposure, but where you go a bit south or like to other places, you don't get this, you don't get to see this, right?

Ajay Naveen: So we wanted to cater to those students right then. Then I actually started my thing of, uh, in, in a juncture in, in a place called Kel. This is here in Tahu. So what happened was we had our office over there and we were able to cover a very good belt. You know, like, uh, we were able to cover this Rai, Salem e Road even, right?

Ajay Naveen: It Okay. Didn't mean that we, we never had clients in Kto. No. We had clients in Clamato. In fact, I did my training in, uh, my very own institution, uh, CI i t. So, uh, we had premium institutions as well. At the same time, we were focusing a lot on these institutions. So what really happened was, frankly speaking, uh, Jack Bowen, this success itself was a surprise to me.

Ajay Naveen: I never planned this thing up. So what happened? Like, uh, I still remember, you know, 2010, I come, uh, got, got out of my college. 2011. We, we had all these things ready and we were, uh, hitting the road at that point in time. When we, when we went into, uh, went to Namal for the first time, they were looking at us as God, you know, because, uh, we had the language and we had the background.

Ajay Naveen: So the moment I told them I'm from c I t, I was getting a red carpet welcome. And, uh, people were able to associate with me and they wanted, they, they, they obviously felt that, okay, that is something that this guy could contribute. Great. And, uh, penetrating the market initially was very easy. All I had to say was like, I have to share my brochure.

Ajay Naveen: I have to explain what I had for their students and give a glimpse of my background that was more than sufficient for these institutions to say, okay, and sign a deal. Right, right. So initially what what really happened was, you know, um, I now coming to the second part of the question, why is early success dangerous?

Ajay Naveen: Right? So in my case, what happened? Um, generally when you go to these kind of smaller towns like NAA or RAI or Salem or Erode, what happens is like all the institutions, you will have 10 institution, 15 institutions, right? But the thing is, all the institutions, they're connected some way or the other. So this is, this is uncles, this is nieces, this is nephews some way or the other.

Ajay Naveen: These are all relatives only, right? So what happened was, uh, we did a, we put up a really great show in one of the institution. I had no clue that this institution had connections with all the surrounding institutions, right? The moment the word came out that, you know, students were really happy and the the, during the last day we invited guests over to come and, you know, the management also, man, people from the management came and we were, uh, we were showcasing what we did and students were giving testimonials.

Ajay Naveen: And it was a fantastic show. Went really great. And what really happened was, you know, the word quickly spread to the other institutions, right? So other institutions, instead of we approaching the institutions, institutions started coming to us and they wanted to sign up with Happy Miles. They wanted us to be a part at that juncture.

Ajay Naveen: What. I personally was doing it. I was doing all the heavy, heavy lifting. I really didn't really have a team. It was just a team of three people, you know? Okay, I take care of the training, another person to take care of operations, another one to take care of the marketing. It was a very simple team. We really didn't want to be, you know, growth per these or mil, uh, uh, uh, all these things.

Ajay Naveen: We wanted to try this thing out. We were really young at that point. In 21 was when I started, 2021 was when I started. So, you know how, how we think at that age, right? So, uh, what really happened was, um, institutions started coming to us and, uh, when then we, we had to hire people because the volume was huge.

Ajay Naveen: You know, it's like, uh, we have to give training to thousand people. You know, it was 800 people. There is another group of institutions there, a massive group of institutions where they have close to about 30,000 people and they wanted us to do for all. Then we were like surprised. Like then I didn't know what to know because I was totally new to this, right?

Ajay Naveen: So hiring started, so hiring left, right, and center. And the moment you start tasting success very early in life, you know, like when you're 21, 22, and when people start coming to you and they say that, Hey, you are my inspiration. You have done this, you, you've done that. I'm not talking about students who walk, walk up and uh, compliment you.

Ajay Naveen: I'm talking about professors or assistant professors, uh, managements who come and tell, Hey, you've been doing a great job. I've never seen something like this. Then that gets, gets to your head. Right. Right. And you think that you're invincible, right? And you think that, oh my God, I've taken the best decision of my life and even the money.

Ajay Naveen: Right? So early success in terms of money as well, right? Right. So you start getting money. Then you, you, you think of getting a headquarters for yourself. You think of getting a executive table for yourself and a chair for yourself. You invest a lot on these things, which are really not required, but kind of a show off to a 21 year old because Right.

Ajay Naveen: My friends were sitting in m and c companies making 20, 25,000 a month paying bf this, that, and after the deductions 18 to 20, 25 K. And I was like, solid six figures, right? So, I thought, okay, I have, I have cracked the code. My life is settled. My life is for good. And then the reality came, then the reality hit, you know, the market reality.

Ajay Naveen: So I was playing around with these 10 institutions. But the reality is not just 10 institutions. Correct. You have to, if you're building a team, if you're making something up them, obviously you have to, uh, scale up. You know, scaling up was a problem. Uh, getting the right, uh, people inside, uh, your team was a problem.

Ajay Naveen: Right. And slowly, the, the, the, the institutions are not going to be, uh, having the same passion that they had when they signed up with you. Right. So initially, when days go off, and they also know you, they, they understand you, and they get exposed to a lot of other companies as well. That's the time when other companies from Chennai and QU were also penetrating this particular market.

Ajay Naveen: Hmm. Right. So they, they followed this, uh, strategy of mine, and they were, I mean, I wouldn't say that it was my strategy, but again, they felt that this is a very good market. And they also started coming in and, uh, it also started getting crowded. So these institutions started having options. Right? Right. So then you, your business goes and it hits a low, right?

Ajay Naveen: And then you think of like, okay, what really happened? So it was not a failure. It, I wouldn't call my, uh, first business as a failure. It was going good. It, it was fine. But the actual failure is because I felt a burnout. I was like, exhausted. Right. Uh, I personally think that when you're passionate about something, when you're doing something, you should not get exhausted.

Ajay Naveen: But I was, at one point in time, I was completely exhausted the way it was going. And, you know, because, uh, trainers, trainers, hiring trainers was the most difficult thing because for them, nobody see training as a profession. Right, right. For them, it was a bridge. Maybe one, two years, they come and then they leave.

Ajay Naveen: So I train people. I, I put a lot of, um, effort in training these people, send them out for, you know, train the trainer programs or whatnot, all the workshops. But after two years, the this person leaves. Mm-hmm. So again, I have to bring in a new person. So building a team, these things were a real hassle. And then finally, I think 2015, uh, I decided, okay, um, it's time to say, uh, goodbye to this particular business model.

Ajay Naveen: I was pretty sure about my skillset. I was confident of my strength. All those things were there, but I felt the model was not working for some reason. The reason is because doing the training is one, getting the payment from these big institutions is a total different thing. Mm. Maybe I'm not good at it.

Ajay Naveen: Right, right. So at that point in time, when 15 lacks 20 lacks, check gets. Held by the institution for a span of six months or like eight months, one year. Right. It's a big amount for me. I cannot source this one from my end. And if I have to do it, then again I have to get it as a debt or a loan, and I have to pay interest.

Ajay Naveen: And it was not adding up. The numbers we're not adding up. Right. Institutions very coolly. They say that, Hey, asj, your, your, the next year order is yours, so I'll be paying this. They, they never pay you. It's not that they don't pay you at all, but they don't pay you on time. But I have to pay my trainers, I have to pay my team, and I have to take care of the logistics and other things.

Ajay Naveen: Right, right. So this was not adding up for some reason. And, uh, that's when I decided, okay, we'll stick to training, but instead of we going to companies, or sorry, the institutions, colleges, colleges, I, I decided instead of working it as b2b, why not? Let's try B2C directly catering to students. Right, right.

Ajay Naveen: So then, uh, we shut down all our operations in Nacal. We had an office there in nama, and we had a, had an office here in POO as well. At that point in time, we actually shut down the operations, uh, in Nacal. We had a very small office there in Chennai as well. Right. Uh, and we closed on all these offices, and then we focused more on in-house training.

Ajay Naveen: We wanted students to start coming in. Right. So I, I wouldn't call my first thing as failure. It was working, but. Didn't really go the way, or it didn't really work out the way I expected it to. So, um, it's still not a failure, but a lesson I would rather say, but didn't go the way that I expected it to.

Ajay Naveen: That was, uh, uh, a small story about, uh, maple assistance. How it started. Where you mean Happy miles? Happy Miles. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, it's Happy Miles. Yeah,

Djagmo: no, that's not a problem. I mean, uh, so I mean, I can clearly see that, you know, it was not about, um, you just made a decision to get out of that business model for whatever reasons.

Djagmo: It's not about, you know, it was not like there was no market for that business because some of the businesses, um, that, uh, has shut down, you know, from my conversations, it is because either they were too early in the market, um, you know, there was no market and stuff like that. But I think this is a little different reason it didn't meet your idea of a business and you thought, you know, I, you could have a better version of a business.

Djagmo: And that's, that's right. Probably put on, but, um, I'd like to, you know, uh, dig a little more, uh, into Happy Miles because, uh, you may have shut it down, uh, aj, but I think, um, a lot of value can be, um, got out from this conversation in terms of, you know, because, uh, it is expensive for people to make mistakes themselves and learn from it, rather, you know, if they, um, find out from other businesses what went wrong.

Djagmo: Maybe they may not. Uh, although all businesses are not same, The circumstances are different, but still I think some insights can be broader of it. So just a few more questions before we move on from Happy Miles. So Happy Miles. Uh, you started in 20 10, 20 11, is that correct? And then it, uh, went on until 2015.

Djagmo: So just about five years, um, of running Happy Miles and five years is a very good time to run a business. You wouldn't have run it if they were no profits or, you know, you were still making money and stuff like that. So, uh, what was the peak revenue you hit, uh, while you were running? Uh, happy Miles. And was it in the middle of the five year, uh, period or was it was the end of the five year period?

Ajay Naveen: So, um, the revenue, see, frankly speaking, when I decided to quit, uh, happy Miles, right. The revenue was still there. Okay. We had, uh, our loyal, uh, customers we had, it was, it was tough for us to say no to these, uh, institutions because Right. They were a part of, uh, happy Miles for a very long time. Right. Three years, four years is a very long time.

Ajay Naveen: And it comes to this business, you know. Right. Uh, two, three years itself is a very long time because the institution keeps shuffling the, the players, you know? Right. Because year they call this vendor. Um, we had loyal customers in, in Triche. We had loyal customers in Clamato. We had loyal customers in iCal Salem region.

Ajay Naveen: Right, right, right. It was hard for us to say no. And, uh, I was able to hit a number anywhere between. Um, five to six lags in a month. Right. This was the numbers we were actually hitting at that point in time. Uh, and we were a team of, um, I, I be I, if I remember it right, I think it's around 15 to 16 people.

Ajay Naveen: Okay. Including, uh, the office people, meaning the, the administration, the hr, the operations and, and and stuff. Right. So 15, 16 people. Right. So I wouldn't say the numbers was, uh, bad numbers was okay, but, you know, um, the thing was, it was not coming at the right time, you know, so it has to happen at the right time, especially when it comes to numbers.

Ajay Naveen: There is no point in someone coming and giving you, uh, Filex extra when you really don't need the cash, but when you need it. Even a single rupe is gonna be really, uh, important. Right, right, right. So, Filex, we used to get, we, we used to make this money because obviously the running cost itself was really high at that point in time.

Ajay Naveen: Right. Without this money, we, we couldn't actually run the show. Nice. So we were making the money, it was not, it was neck to neck. It was kind of, uh, breaking even. And, uh, we had our profits, we have taken the profits, we have investor reinvested that in our business. You know, uh, um, explore a few different things.

Ajay Naveen: We have hired, uh, creative people to, to give a different flavor to training. We have tried out all those things and we have spent a lot of money on research as well. Right, right. So we were making quite decent money at that point in time, but. That wasn't good enough, frankly speaking. Right. So, on on, on any terms, making someone who was making like four, five lacks a month and uh, if he's even making a 50 50 K, 60 K profit, still would've made sense.

Ajay Naveen: But, uh, for us it was not working out. The numbers were not working out. And also I was able to sense this burnout. Right, right, right. I was feeling tired here and to achieve this numbers I have to put in a lot and a lot of effort. So didn't really make, uh, um, sense to me to go ahead and continue the same model as the same business the way it was going, because obviously it's gonna give you the same results.

Ajay Naveen: Right. And, uh, again, another reason would be like lot of mushroom players also cro in, I should definitely mention this, right? Lot of mushroom players also cro in, uh, and 2011 it was a different story, but 2015, uh, by the time it was 20 14, 20 15, the story was totally different. So what happened was all those trainers, you know, uh, who train for a particular company, they come out of the company, they understand the business, they come out of the company.

Ajay Naveen: Two, three people join together. That's right. They go to an institution and they tell that, Hey, if you are paying thousand rupees there mm-hmm. We, we can get this done for like 200 rupees, 300 rupees, you know, this cheap thing. And. These are the people you are referring to, the mushroom players. Mushroom players, right.

Ajay Naveen: Uh, small companies and all these freelance groups, you know, so institutions, not all the institutions, they care about the reputation. Or some institutions, they want to do it. They want to give it a try, they want to do it for the, they have things on a tight budget. Right? So they're on a tight budget. Yeah, correct.

Ajay Naveen: So maybe ours don't fit their budget. So then it kept on getting crowded here. The space got crowded here, and I really didn't, I cannot afford to bring down my prices because I was giving something of quality. Right? And I cannot bring down the prices. Like you compare this with another thing, then you cannot compare apples and oranges.

Ajay Naveen: So institutions start comparing, Hey, this fellow is doing for this and this fellows, why not you come down on your prices? We'll give you more numbers. But again, I felt that I should not do a business that way. It was not making sense for me and all these things. It was not just one thing that made me okay.

Ajay Naveen: Like, let's, let's stop this. It was a culmination of all these, you know, one after another, after another. So then I decided, okay, this is somewhere not working. Money is not coming on time, right? It's very hard to retain these trainers and mushroom players cropping in and the numbers. Every, every month, I have to put in that effort.

Ajay Naveen: E because like I take 10 trainers this month. Five of them would, you know, leave the company. So, uh, the, the very next month. So I have to, uh, take in another 10, 10 people. So it was not really making sense. It was, I felt that it was, um, I was not going anywhere. If at all. I was, got it, got it, making exponential, uh, then it would've made sense.

Ajay Naveen: But no, the money was still the same. And, uh, but I was doing a lot of heavy lifting and I was wearing out, frankly speaking. Then I felt maybe, no, this is not the way we need to work. And, uh, people in the company were making money, but I was not making money. So then that, that was an indication, right? So for any, uh, founder, like this was a clear cut indication, right?

Ajay Naveen: Uh, in spite of achieving a lot, in spite of, uh, having a very good base and stuff. If the money is not there in your bank account, then something is wrong. It's leaking somewhere. Then I thought maybe I should take a call, right? So, enough for now, I use the same brand, but, uh, not for, uh, outbound trainings Now.

Ajay Naveen: We used, uh, maple assistance, maple assistance became an in-house training. Uh, Program from, I think it was 1516, 2015, 16 at that point in time, that's when you started Maple Assistance? Yeah. Happy Miles was coming down. No, maple Assistance was started a bit later. Uh, not at 2016. It was around 2018. I started Maple Assistance.

Ajay Naveen: That's a I'll, I'll come to that story maybe. Uh,

Djagmo: yeah, we'll, we'll definitely talk about medical assistance, but, you know, uh, the backstory of how, uh, I think that's where I'm trying to get a detail pitch. Yeah. So, uh, aj uh, happy Miles, you were the only founder, is it? Or you had, uh, two more

Ajay Naveen: founders who, um, they were not founders actually, but, uh, they were part of the team.

Ajay Naveen: Uh, right. So, uh,

Djagmo: again. Okay, so they were under you, you were the, uh, solo, how it started? No,

Ajay Naveen: we, these people, I wouldn't call them, you can call them maybe co-founders, but they didn't continue for long. Right. So they were there for, initially they were there with me, but after a year or two, like, uh, one guy, he was into it.

Ajay Naveen: So he started something on his own in, in it, close friends of mine, another friend, he, uh, took his way and he was into something else. Right. So, um, got it. We are all still friends and very close friends, in fact, uh, but each one into a different, uh, field right now. Right. And, uh, they were there with me. I, for some time, I would say like two, two and a half years, three US.

Ajay Naveen: So,

Djagmo: yeah. So, uh, when you decided, you know, 2015, you're gonna wrap up Happy Miles, I'm sure you know. Um, You must have. There is a reason why you're doing that. And you must have already been thinking, you know, okay, these are the mistakes I've made here. You, I'm sure you're already looking at your next startup.

Djagmo: And then, you know, not committing those mistakes and then making it better as an entrepreneur. I think it gets a little more exciting when you're gonna wind up on business and start another business because you're so much more wiser and then, you know, you do not want to do those things and you know how differently you're gonna do that.

Djagmo: So, uh, from that perspective, not from a, uh, uh, you know, the business model, the Happy Miles business model, let's leave the type of the business you are doing in Happy Miles. Let's simply take it as a business, right? As a business. What are the lessons that you took away from Happy Miles? Um, domain agnostic lessons.

Ajay Naveen: So, one thing, if you want to build a successful company, it is not about you, it's about your team, for sure. Right? You might be having a billion dollar idea, you might be having, uh, a skill and expertise. It's going to take you maybe a mile. But if you want to go miles, then you definitely need to have the team and you need to have a team with a vision, right?

Ajay Naveen: So when I'm talking about team, I'm not talking about people who you pay money and they work for you for a month. They, they give you eight year, eight hours time. No, that's not the kind of team I'm talking about. You need to have a team who believes in you, uh, who sees value. In what you're doing. Mm-hmm.

Ajay Naveen: And what committed, right? So this is absolutely important. And, uh, I would say that, you know, one learning was, I, I learned it a bit late, right? Hmm. So one thing, um, is that, you know, you have to attract such people in your team, and you cannot force people to believe in your vision, right? So, to a certain extent, I felt that, you know, I was forcing my team to see the way I think I, I, I'm seeing it, right?

Ajay Naveen: They were not getting the picture, but I was trying to force them into my vision and stuff that didn't really work. You know, the a hundred percent commitment was not there. So, frankly speaking, that is number one a big lesson that I learned, right? So, right. It's very hard to find that one person who can be a part of your team, even to find that one person.

Ajay Naveen: It might take a lot of time. Sometimes you may not even find that teammate, right? So your business can go like that as well. We really don't know. This is one. Number two, um, choose to handle money wisely. How do you handle money? Mm-hmm. That's absolutely important. Absolutely important, right? So, um, my biggest lesson from Happy Miles was not to invest on things which are not required for a span of one year.

Ajay Naveen: Okay. I was investing things on temporary stuff, you know? Mm-hmm. So, uh, my office space, I, I took a, I took an office space. This is a classic example. I took in 4,000 square feet office space. I was paying a rent of like 40, 50 grand. I'm talking about 2012, right? It paid not be a big money right now, but 2012, it's huge.

Ajay Naveen: Yeah.

Djagmo: Back to that was

Ajay Naveen: huge. I, we had classrooms, we had a lot of facilities, but we didn't really make use of those facilities. And we had a team of 15, 16 people. This 4,000 square, uh, square feet office space was just a meeting hub for all these 18 guys. Maybe we could have gone with a co-working space, or we could have done anything we wanted with that money, but I chose to do this.

Ajay Naveen: And not just that. Investing in the interiors, you know, that's when you get the high right? You, you start making money. Then you think of why is this a, a wooden door? Why not make this a glass door, right? Why not? Why not have a wallpaper instead of, you know, painting? Why not, uh, do a coat here? When you enter the, you need to get the why.

Ajay Naveen: Even these things don't really matter end of day. What matters is the value that you give to your clients and the money that you. That comes to your bank account. These are the two things that, that really matter. You don't have to look rich as a company. You have to be rich as a company, right? So that's really important, right?

Ajay Naveen: I was trying to look rich. That was one important lesson that I again, learned from maybe, uh, from Happy Miles, right? Another thing, uh, which I would, uh, tell you, or, or a lesson that I learned is you cannot be everywhere. You cannot be everywhere. Um, I was doing operations, I was doing training. I was training my trainers.

Ajay Naveen: I was the one who was negotiating with the, uh, management of institutions. I was the one who's, who was present everywhere, right? And that is not going to work. You putting your, uh, time into building, curriculums, you putting your time and training the trainers, you putting your time in, you know, negotiating and closing the deals.

Ajay Naveen: No, that cannot work. That's going to wear you off, right? I was doing all sorts of things and that didn't really help my case, right? So that's something that I, again, learned, right? So I cannot be everywhere. I should choose a particular thing, and I stick, I should stick to those things, right? Otherwise, it's like lighting the candle on both ends, right?

Ajay Naveen: Might look bright, but I'm going to go off very soon. So these are some of the key takeaways, frankly, speaking from, uh, uh, happy Miles, right? So I was very conscious that I shouldn't repeat this ever in my life. So key lessons that I learned, I would, I'm really happy that I was able to learn this in my twenties, right?

Ajay Naveen: People learn this in thirties and forties. When I, when I listen people, listen to top people speaking. I, I, I'm really glad right now that I at least, uh, you know, I had this privilege of learning all these things in, um, in my, uh, mid twenties. So, still good? Yeah. Great. Great.

Djagmo: Uh, just, just for listener's sake, let me quickly summarize these three lessons I took away.

Djagmo: Just please add if I missed out something. The first one is, you know, you said, uh, I would rather take it like this. While you're building your core team, it's very important to, uh, uh, have people who are already, uh, thinking like the way you are thinking, who already have a vision similar to yours, that there's no point forcing them into your vision, at least in the start.

Djagmo: Absolutely. And then the second one was, uh, don't spend the money on unnecessary things. If you, if the business can run without something, it has to run. It has to run. Yeah. Uh, that need not have to be an important thing to be invested in. And, uh, the third thing was, uh, delegate is what I would take it from you.

Djagmo: Correct. Uh, you're asking, you know, you are, you say that you've learned that things. Has to be delegated so that you know, you are not burning out and you can still be there to sustain the business. I'm sure. Uh, these are common mistakes people will do when they're over enthusiastic and they're overly passionate about their business because it's their baby, right?

Djagmo: Yeah. I mean, they want to make sure that, uh, nobody else is messing it up and stuff like that. But, um, yeah. Got it. In fact, you know what, I had a conversation with, um, one of a young entrepreneur, you know, who's about 27, 28. Uh, she's based out of Indoor now. She's got her company in, uh, her name is Ocean. And she runs a company called In pac, uh, pretty much, uh, into training.

Djagmo: But then, you know, she takes programs from corporates to students, um, like, you know, Microsoft, aws, and then, you know, uh, she had an executive assistant mm-hmm. Uh, to a ceo. And then, uh, none of the other founders that I talked to had something like that. And then, you know, she explained how much time it saved for her and, um, how she doesn't have to look at the grunt work and, you know, it just frees up so much.

Djagmo: And then your efficiency as a CEO increases so much. So that's what I was thinking of when you were talking about delegating and stuff. Great. Aj. Uh, so aj um, moving on from Happy Miles. Uh, happy Miles ended in about 20 15, 20 16. You start Maple Assistance in 2018 and. Now talk about, uh, the years between closing Happy Miles and starting Maple assistance, because I'm sure this is a very critical period.

Djagmo: It's a pa, it's a phase of transition. I'm sure you had a lot of thinking to do. Uh, I'm sure, you know, you had a lot of doubts because Happy Miles, you didn't, you would've been aware of not making, repeating the mistakes that you might have repeated in Happy Miles. You would've thought a lot. So can you walk us through in as much detail as you can between Happy Miles and

Ajay Naveen: Maple assistance, um, happy miles and Maple assistance.

Ajay Naveen: You know, um, both are actually intertwined. It's interconnected. So I'll, I'll come to that. Sure. But talking about these two years, 2015 and 2016, in fact, very, very crucial years of my life personally. Um, because, um, during my college, I was, uh, I was in relationship with, uh, girl and this relationship went on for, uh, seven years and I had to break up.

Ajay Naveen: At that point in time, it was, I had this, uh, ugly breakup happening at, uh, 24 20 14, 20 15. I had this breakup, and that was when this happy males was also, you know, taking this bad shape and stuff. So 2015 was a very, very dark year for me. It was very dark. Okay. Um, and, uh, frankly speaking, my, my team stood with me.

Ajay Naveen: They know, they know, and, uh, they stood with me. And it was a very difficult year, uh, at that point in time, 2015. By, by God's grace, I was able to come out of that quickly. And in fact, my business helped it. So, when you're an entrepreneur, you don't get time to, you know, uh, think about all these heartbreaks and stuff because you have people who we have to pay, right?

Ajay Naveen: So you cannot take this. You, you don't have this luxury. You have no time to sit down. You don't have that, right. So I didn't really have the time. So in fact, it was a blessing, frankly speaking. It was a blessing in disguise, right? The situation was a blessing in disguise. Uh, 20 15, 20 17, when I decided that, I slowly started telling my team, okay, this is what I'm thinking.

Ajay Naveen: Uh, I may not be able to give my a hundred percent, and you know, what's happening in my life and, you know, what's happening with the happy mess. I, I sat my team down. There were a few people, you know, four or five people, uh, whom, to whom I was personally responsible, whom I felt that they was there with me, uh, right from, from the start.

Ajay Naveen: So, I, I felt that I personally responsible to address these people. So I called these guys up, told 'em, Hey, this is what I'm doing. And then I told them that what they should do and what they can actually do, and what all things that I can do from my end to help them settle down. Because they were getting a salary here, and all of a sudden, I cannot say that I'm gonna fire you and you leave.

Ajay Naveen: No, that cannot work. So I made a smooth transition to all these four or five people. Uh, I got them jobs with, uh, companies and make sure that they were properly settled, still in touch with those guys. That's a beauty. So, uh, amazing these people. Once this was done, then I, I started preparing for GMAT 20 15, 20 16, you know, Like what, what goes through your mind?

Ajay Naveen: 25. I was 26 at that point in time, I guess 26, 27, I guess. Uh, 25, 26. Yeah. And, uh, I started preparing for gmat and I always wanted to do, you wanted to do an mba? Uh, I wanted to do an MBA in the top 1% universities. Right. Uh, I was very specific with, I had my list as well, so I thought, okay. And I, and my parents were really worried because they knew about my, uh, relationship and this breakup and stuff.

Ajay Naveen: So they wanted me to get married, settle down, because I was really nervous, you know, like they don't know what I'm gonna do. Obviously parents, Indian parents, typical South Indian parents mentality. And I told them, okay, gimme, gimme one year. Right? So you, I've already, this is a more like a rewind, gimme one more year, so I'll try to figure this thing out, right.

Ajay Naveen: If not, I'm going to, I'm going to say yes to whatever you tell me. Right. Got ahead and I started preparing for gmat and, uh, I was doing all my preparations. I, I, I think my GMA score was around 680 or something. Six outta this 800. Okay. And, uh, I had few institutions in my mind and I was no way close to those institutions.

Ajay Naveen: Those institutions were like, nice. They, they, um, they required a lot of score. Like mine was not so close, you know, I was not okay in, uh, studying with the second level, third level institutions. I was not okay with that. If I had to do an mba, I have to do with the light schools. Uh, right. So that was there in my mind.

Ajay Naveen: So, uh, that didn't really work. And then now my parents came, they knew that, you know, this didn't really work. 2016, they, they came out with, uh, all the proposals and something, and like 2016, I actually got married. So, okay, 2016 my marriage happened. That is when I had to rethink the whole, uh, stuff, you know, like what was happening in my life, right?

Ajay Naveen: So I had to rethink the whole thing because now it's a totally a different scenario getting married. So it's a, it's a completely different scenario. So what am I gonna do? Like, what am I gonna do with my life? And I already had this idea, so that business idea is not working. Uh, it was always a plan to start my, uh, in-house training program.

Ajay Naveen: So 2016 is when I decided, okay, so now since my GMA thing didn't work, and I said no to universities, I, I then decided, okay, once I get this 10, 15 years of, uh, experience, then I'm going to do a direct executive MBA in top institutions, let MBA not my cup of tea. So I told this to myself. Then what happened?

Ajay Naveen: Like, I, I started my, I started Happy Miles itself. The name remain the same, but the business model was totally different. It was an in-house training program. This time. The beauty of this in-house training program was I was able to do it all by myself. I didn't really require a team. I was, I was sitting there, I had an office space, a thousand square feet, a decent office space.

Ajay Naveen: And I was sitting here and like, uh, I was doing my marketing. I know this marketing stuff, the local marketing, I was learning all those things. I should say all this just dial guys and all this lead providers, sule guys, you know, I'm talking about 2016, right? All these guys came in handy. I was, uh, I started getting leads.

Ajay Naveen: The good thing is when a, when a person as a lead, they come to the office space, the converstion rate was really good because they were talking to me directly. Whenever a person talks me, I easy for me to sell something to a person because it's from my heart. Like when they see the passion, they believe this guy who can add value and they sign up.

Ajay Naveen: Right? Right. And then 2016, what really happened was I was not making the money that I used to make with Happy Miles initially. Mm-hmm. But my bank account was making a lot of money. So Happy Miles as an entity was making a lot of money, but AJ as a person was not making that much money. But when I was doing this on my own, I understood, I realized that, okay, who am I got?

Ajay Naveen: Like all this money is coming to me now, so directly. So, so finally, finally, AJ is making money. Right? I was really surprised. And that is when I understood the power of, you know, uh, working alone. Not just working alone and, and the amount of work that you do. You know, so you, when, when you're having a team naturally for some sort of reasons, you do all these meetings and stuff, and your time goes unproductive, right?

Ajay Naveen: But when you're alone, right? You, you tend to figure out all those things, and you do a lot, you accomplish a lot of things and money starts flowing in. I was really surprised at this, right? So when money started coming in, I was really surprised, right? And we, I was able to get a very good response from Quator.

Ajay Naveen: From all of a sudden it became a quator only company. Happy Mouse became a quator only company. But I was able to receive very good reception from students as well as even people who are working, uh, professionals. They all started coming in, right? So this is the time, 2016, when I started my iNOS training program for the first time I introduced iss, uh, why I introduced Isles because while I was preparing for gma I was doing this GMA thing as well as isles, as an, so I was very familiar with isles.

Ajay Naveen: And, uh, I started, I, I included these programs as well, and then people started coming in for aisles. Lot of people started coming in for aisles, right? Then, uh, I was doing this and had, had, I had one freelance trailer whom I actually know, and he was taking care of the aptitude, right? So I used to pay him on an hourly basis.

Ajay Naveen: So I used to get the money directly from the, the client. So it's like all of a sudden from completing the training program, waiting for six months and getting the money now, it changed to if you want to start the training, you pay the money first, and then let's, let's do the training. So the whole narrative also changed, right?

Ajay Naveen: And it was working out wonders for me, 20 16, 20 17. Again, that's, that's when it slowly started take taking off. And this really what happened in this, you know, 20 15, 20 16 years, right? This was a bridge.

Djagmo: Great. Uh, you, you, uh, spoke about it in 10 minutes, but I've got so many questions about it. Let me start off with this question, aj, just for the sake of, you know, um, see, uh, one of the important things, uh, when you, uh, start a company in your early twenties, it also coincides.

Djagmo: It may, may not, but for some people it may not. For some people, it may coincide with their personal life as well. Just like you said, you know, you were in a relationship, unfortunately, you know, you wonder when to break up and stuff. Could you please share? I'm not saying that it's gonna be the same for everybody, but, um, it's all, you know, learning at the end of the day, right?

Djagmo: Uh, so, uh, for people, for the young, uh, uh, entrepreneurs who are in their early twenties who are running a company, who are, have, you know, who are also in a relationship at the same time, what are the lessons? What is not lessons? You know, what are the some of the important things that you'd like to share from your experience?

Djagmo: What went wrong for you?

Ajay Naveen: See, um, frankly speaking, when you are in a relationship, right? And when you're, when you are a founder, or when you are starting up a company, when you're doing something on your own, right? When you are responsible for yourself, right? You have to, the communication with your partner has to be absolutely clear, right?

Ajay Naveen: Where is it going? How do you see yourself? And what if this happens? And what if this doesn't happen? This communication part is really important because otherwise you'll get hurt. You'll hit, and this hit is going to, you know, this is going to hurt you badly at some point in time, right? So when you're, when you're getting into these things and you know about yourself, right?

Ajay Naveen: You know that you are, you're an entrepreneur. You know that this is, this is how you cannot spend time for an entrepreneur that, again, is gonna be a serious problem. You, you are, you are hustling like 12 hours, like 14 hours, right? You don't have time to sleep. You don't have time to send messages and bouquets and take her out for a, a dinner or something.

Ajay Naveen: That's not going to happen. Right? And your, the, your partner should also know this, right? And if they, if they don't understand what you're doing, frankly speaking, this is not gonna go along. Even if you get married, it's still going to end up in a, maybe I, I don't want to say this, but it may not last forever, right?

Ajay Naveen: Because the life of an entrepreneur is completely different from a person who's working for a company. This is two totally different things, different words, right? So this, this entrepreneur might be making less money than an employee, but still he has more work than an employee, right? So this is something that the partner should also understand, right?

Ajay Naveen: And, and you, as you, as an entrepreneur, it is your responsibility to explain all these things and to put all these things in place, right? And at the same time, one more learning is that when you are an entrepreneur, when you, when you have an idea, when you're, when you're working on an idea, when you're working, uh, for a company, when it is, it is growing, it is, it is by nature.

Ajay Naveen: You spend a lot of time thought and effort into this thing, you may tend to forget that you are in relationship, and you may even tend to, you know, do the regular stuff, right? But it's really important if you are, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're an an entrepreneur listening, I would say yes, your, your business is important.

Ajay Naveen: At the same time, your relationship is equally important, right? So it's equally important because it can make or break your business. Trust me. Right? Hmm. So, uh, I recently came up, uh, uh, I was reading a blog and this was, this was this guy, I, I forgot his name. Uh, he was interviewing, uh, he was, he was in touch with seven or 17.

Ajay Naveen: I, I don't remember the number. 17 billionaires, or seven billionaires. He was asking for one thing, right? Hmm. Uh, what is the best advice that you give? Literally, like, not the same words, but all these seven people, 17 people, all the billionaires. They, they gave this thing good wife, good life, right? So this right plays a part.

Ajay Naveen: So you might be having a successful business, you might be having great, but if your girlfriend is angry at you for some reason, you're, you are not really successful, my dear friend. So, make sure that you are properly communicating stuff and also make sure that you're spending time, healthy time on your relationships as well.

Ajay Naveen: It doesn't really apply to your girlfriends alone. It also applies to your family. It also applies to your friends. Uh, being an entrepreneur, I'm pretty sure you have lost friends. I have lost friends because I don't hang out with them. So like, uh, we, we lose people. These are also lessons. I say like, you know, communication is the key, right?

Ajay Naveen: If you're able to communicate right? When you're an entrepreneur, you expect other people to understand you, but they may not, right? Other people may not understand you. Right. So it is your responsibility to communicate that with people so that the boundaries are properly set, expectations are very clear, and, and you try your level best to meet that, right?

Ajay Naveen: So this is ultimately the key, is what I actually believe.

Djagmo: Got it. Aj? So, uh, you know, for founders who are in their early twenties and who are also in a relationship, uh, things, you know, one thing that Rajai, uh, has said is, you know, communication is key. Uh, do not assume that they will understand that you are an entrepreneur because you are the entrepreneur.

Djagmo: They're not an entrepreneur, so they may not know exactly what is going on with your life. So I think crystal clear communication is what, uh, is important. Uh, not necessarily to sustain it or not, but when that happens, you get a clear outcome, you know, that probably. What, uh, so aj, can I say this? Can I, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Djagmo: What took you seven years, uh, to, you know, kind of come to a conclusion? Uh, in terms of the relationship with better communication? Would you have got the conclusion good or bad? Much earlier? You could, you have saved time. Can we look at it like that? Is

Ajay Naveen: it the right? Absolutely. A c uh, in my case, the breakup was not because I was into business.

Ajay Naveen: It was not fully because of this, it was for, uh, family reasons. We are from different religion and all the other things, right? So this was one of the, I mean, it was the most important factor wherein the other things also played a role. But I really like the way you have, you know, phrased your question.

Ajay Naveen: The answer is actually yes, if at all we've had sat down and, you know, we have, uh, we knew this, but we didn't really want to address it. That's the problem. You know, we knew this, this was coming. We knew for some reason that this is not going to work out. But in spite of that, we really wanted to try it, push it, push it to an extent, and then after seven long years when you break this thing up, right, it's, it, it, uh, hurts you badly, right?

Ajay Naveen: But if at all, like I, that's the reason why I really allowed your question, if at all we had sat down maybe in the first year or even, even in the second year, sat down, let, let's see. Like, okay, let's see like where it's going and what's gonna happen, right? If you have had a open conversation and if you're willing to accept the reality, Right.

Ajay Naveen: Both of us would've saved, uh, a lot of time, energy, and, uh, heartbreaks. You have save ourselves, heartbreaks heart. Yeah. So this is ultimately really important, not just in terms of business communication is the most key aspect when it comes to any relationship and for your life. Right? So, and you should, you should not be afraid.

Ajay Naveen: You should not be afraid to have these sort of critical, crucial communications. Yes. Sometimes it's going to hurt you sometimes, but that, that's the reality. We have to face it to go through the process. Right? Got it. Instead of the process and the thing coming and hitting you. If you're able to understand it, and if you're able to part base, it's gonna save a lot of your time.

Ajay Naveen: That's

Djagmo: Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that and taking that question little, I think it's a sensitive thing and thank you for really addressing that because, uh, so, uh, communication is not just a thing. Uh, earlier communication. Don't postpone your communication, you know, do the communication as soon as possible.

Djagmo: It can save a lot of time and heart takes as well. Got it. Aj, so aj, you said, you know, uh, you were of course when you said that, you know, uh, happy Miles, you were not kind of winding up, you were kind of winding up the business model. You were, uh, changing the business model. You were making it more of a classroom training than, you know, you going to the client's place and training.

Djagmo: And then you said that it showed a lot of difference. And, um, you also got married in the year 2016. Um, and during this time you were giving it a shot. Uh, you know, you were giving, uh, foreign MBA. Uh, short, you did your GMAT scores went up to the mark. You were clear about not getting into, uh, institutions apart from the ones that you shortlisted.

Djagmo: I think that's, uh, in the, I I I, I think there's a lesson there as well. Uh, quick, uh, you know, in and out of this topic, if at all, it'll add value to somebody. Uh, you are trying to say that, you know, mba, if not done from the right college is not gonna be, you didn't value it that much personally. You wanted an MBA from a certain college and not just

Ajay Naveen: an MBA from That's absolutely right.

Ajay Naveen: That's absolutely right. So, uh, when I completed my engineering, when I, when I, uh, told about my business plan to my parents, the first thing they asked me, if you're really keen into business, why not you do an m mba? Right? So they really wanted, they asked me this question, why not an m mba? So if you're really that keen.

Ajay Naveen: Sorry. Uh,

Djagmo: sorry. Uh, sorry to cut your shot because you are, you are, you know, talking about something that I also wanted to address. You know, probably this is a question for that. Uh, I was wondering, you know, five years of business and then you suddenly decide to do an mba. What was the thought, uh, you know, thought process behind that?

Djagmo: If I can also add this question? Um,

Ajay Naveen: MBA was alwa always there in back of my mind, but I didn't want to do an MBA for the sake of doing an mba. Right. So, because see, I was an engineer and I was, I was training all these MBA grads, Right. So when I was 22, 23, I was doing sessions for 26, 27 year old, uh, MBA grads and decent, and B schools.

Ajay Naveen: I would not call them, uh, el late, but definitely decent B schools. And I was not happy with, with the way things are here, right? So I wanted to do an MBA from an institution's where you like, yes, this is an mba, it should be like that, you know, where you really learn stuff. It's not about the degree, uh, behind your name.

Ajay Naveen: No, not for that. I really wanted to do an MBA where I explore things where I, my ideas evolve, where I'm able to, uh, connect with like-minded people. And that's the sort of MBA that I wanted to do. And here in India, it's like you have to go to these elite, uh, ims and this thing and that thing. The problem is the road to get into the IMS is the cat.

Ajay Naveen: So they don't value your experience, they don't value the person. You are the personality. It's all about the cat, 99.9 percentile. Then yes, you are in other ways, you are not, right? Mm-hmm. Yes, there is an interview and stuff, but still, uh, but when you, when you take, uh, MBAs, uh, outside India, Right? Hmm. So they, they look at what you have done in, what's your experience, right?

Ajay Naveen: The average class age is like 30 years old. 30, 31. That is when they do the MBAs, right? And people come from different backgrounds. Marine people come in, right? Right. Scientists come in, researchers come in and, and engineers come in, right? So, so founders come in. It's a mixed crowd, right? So that's the kind of classroom I wanted to be in.

Ajay Naveen: So that's why I had the list of institutions, the networking that

Djagmo: you could probably make. Yes, yes.

Ajay Naveen: Obviously. And it's not just about the networking, it's about the learning part. When, when you're filled, I really want to be the dumbest person, right? Uh, in the room. Uh, cause that, that happened in cit that happened in my, uh, engineering college.

Ajay Naveen: I was the dumb person in the engineering college, and I was able to learn a lot of stuff, right? So I felt that I should, I should not, when I was, when the learning was coming to me from one end only then I can give it to other people on the other end, right? So, since I'm into this field, right? So I really wanted to be in such an environment, which is challenging, which really wanted to push me off my limits.

Ajay Naveen: And I wanted this diverse crowd. The, the connections, the networking and stuff. So I wanted to be here. I, I didn't want just another right mba. So that's where all this thing came up. MBA was always, uh, on my mind, back of my mind, but I really didn't know where to start, how to start, how to close it. But 2015, this break actually gave me the chance opportunity to give this a shot.

Ajay Naveen: Mm-hmm. So I just made use of this opportunity because, uh, happy Miles, I was trying to wind this thing off. And, uh, uh, personally also, I was not in a proper shape, so I thought I'll put all the energy here. Uh, and, and, and that helped me give this a shot. Give a shot.

Djagmo: Got, got it. And you said, you know, you got married in 2016 and, uh, you started this, uh, classroom training, uh, before your marriage or after your marriage?

Djagmo: Um,

Ajay Naveen: it was, um, just few months before my marriage. So my marriage itself, uh, and that's another story, you know, uh, if you have the time, then yeah.

Djagmo: No, no. I have a lot of questions. Why? Because see, um, see, I mean, uh, major, you know, majorly, right? Uh, most of them, um, in our culture, our society, marriage, uh, while a man is getting married, he needs to be employed.

Djagmo: He needs to have, uh, the capacity to provide to the family. Right? The reason I'm talking about it is you are winding up Happy Miles in 2015. You are probably not employed at that point in time, but you're talking about you getting married. Uh, How did you position yourself, uh, as a failed entrepreneur? And you were probably not employed, is it because, uh, your family was well to do and that was not a concern?

Djagmo: That's where I was trying to, you know, come in. Asj

Ajay Naveen: family was always a support family was definitely, uh, a excellent business card for me because my, the profiles of my, both my mom and dad was really good. Uh, they had, uh, really good connections and, you know, all those things were definitely there. Right?

Ajay Naveen: Hmm. This again, is something that I've always thought of, but the thing is, uh, when I say that I winded off Maple, uh, sorry. Happy Miles. It was not literally, literally the thing didn't go off. I told you that there were a few loyal clients, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for them, I was still catering. Even this point in time, I was still catering and this was going okay, undercurrent, it was happening, this, this, uh, this Happy Miles thing was happening, undercurrent and, uh, 2016.

Ajay Naveen: See what really happened was when, see, uh, I asked for one year. My parents gave me that one year. I couldn't accomplish what I wanted to, so my MBA thing didn't really work out. So obviously I have promised them that, okay, if this time it is not working out, I'm going to say as to whatever you are telling.

Ajay Naveen: And my parents wanted me to get married. I was really not in that great, uh, mood or in shape to get married at that point in time. But, um, I told myself I sat down. That's, that's the beauty of entrepreneurs. You know, uh, when you, when you hit the rock bottom, you talk to yourself, right? So I, I sat down and I was telling myself, right?

Ajay Naveen: So I didn't do anything wrong in this relationship. And, uh, right. Maybe I'm going to live for another, um, 50 years, maybe 75, 80 years, then I still have a lot of time. I cannot be moaning o on, on this thing. I cannot keep crying over this thing for a very long time. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And for me, I was very particular, right?

Ajay Naveen: For me, change has to be quick. If you allow me to me in this thing for some time, then I'm going to sink into this thing and I'll be totally sold out to that, uh, uh, idea of feeling lost and stuff. So I, I always keep myself engaged. I always keep people around myself, and I'm not in the best and best of my moves, right?

Ajay Naveen: So, right. That's when I said, okay. I told, okay, maybe anyways, marriage is gonna be inevitable, right? Mm-hmm. So if I'm able to get an, get a company early, right? I'm, I'm fine with that. And the profile that I had at that point in time was still happy Miles. I was still showing, okay, as my profile, happy Meals was my profile.

Ajay Naveen: Okay? I was making some money, if not great money. I was still making some money, which acted okay to the thing, right? And got it. Uh, what happened on the flip side was, you know, um, My wife, my wife, she liked me. And, uh, during the proposal and other things, I was very open. I told her, Hey, like, see, this is me, and this is my seven year old relationship.

Ajay Naveen: This is what I'm doing. This is the money that I make. I don't have tons and tons on the bank account. And I was very clear because this time I, I knew the power of communication, so I cannot mess it up. Right. So you spoke about lessons learned, right? Yeah. So I started implementing my lessons. So I, I sat her down.

Ajay Naveen: I told her like, this is what it is, and I really don't mind you telling a no to the proposal. Totally not a problem, because it was completely unarranged, uh, uh, thing, right? Mm-hmm. So I really don't mind if you, if you want to give it a no, absolutely. Cool with it. Absolutely okay with it. And, uh, I'm, I'm fine with this thing.

Ajay Naveen: So I just told her absolutely open, and I communicated the same to her dad as well as to her, uh, brother, right? I told them like, what is what and how, how, how things are right. And, uh, the only person was not okay with this thing was my mother, mother-in-law. She wanted her daughter to get married to a person who was in a, you know, the secured job, who goes safety first, nine to five and stuff, right?

Ajay Naveen: So gets a pinch or whatever. And I mean, no harm. I have a sister, so I know I totally understand their feelings now. She was not okay with it. So that didn't really take off. Uh, the first time we met, this proposal came, that didn't really take off. After a few months, what had actually happened was like, uh, this, this girl was part of my church.

Ajay Naveen: I, I go to the same church where she goes, like, we both are part of the same church. And I used to see her. So every time I see her I used to say a hi. Obviously you cannot act awkward and weird, right? So like, oh, so

Djagmo: even before you met this girl for this, uh, arrangement, you knew her? No,

Ajay Naveen: no. After this arrangement,

Djagmo: after this arrangement, this didn't

Ajay Naveen: take off.

Ajay Naveen: Oh, okay. Fine. Didn't really take off for the next six, eight months. Nothing really happened. Didn't really take off. But she used to come to the same church. Now I know this person because I already spoken to her. Right. So I used to Right, right, right. Used to wave, uh, hands and, you know, uh, we literally have had a word, but.

Ajay Naveen: But in the six,

Djagmo: eight months, you didn't see

Ajay Naveen: anybody else you that was going on profile. That search was, that hunt was going on that I didn't see anyone in person, person, but my parents were searching left, right, and center. And for me, in a way, it was actually, I was, I was actually enjoying because I was not in, I was not a hundred percent ready for it and all.

Ajay Naveen: And, uh, being a business guy, nobody gives you a, a girl, right? So, right. Uh, every time they go, go pitch in my profile, obviously for this reason, some way or the other, it may not work out. Right. So, right. They were really stressed and all these things. It was all going on. Right. And, uh, what really happened was, uh, it's an interesting story, uh, frankly speaking, so this girl, so she liked me the way they approach and stuff, so she liked me and, uh, parents also liked me.

Ajay Naveen: I really liked the girls and I was very open. Like I really liked the guy I had. I knew nothing about her, but I liked her. But nothing really took off. So this was the six, eight months break, right? Split. For some reason, this thing again came up. The, the same proposal, which this boomerang, and it again came up this time, it was even more a serious talk, you know, like this thing happened and, uh, uh, serious talk.

Ajay Naveen: Then we started talking to each other between, we started talking each other, and I asked her like, uh, uh, it didn't really work out between us. What was the reason? May I know the reason why you said, or no, you guys told her, no, totally cool with it, but what's the reason? I just want to understand so that next time when I go approach a girl, or when my parents are finding I can present myself better.

Ajay Naveen: So it's just a casual talk, you know, and she's told like, no, no, no. We all liked your profile. My mom was not so convinced on that. Oh, okay. Then I, I totally got the point. Right? Right. Then what really happened was they wanted to reconsider it, so the family wanted to reconsider it because there was a lot of common points between me there, our family and her family.

Ajay Naveen: There were few common people, so who kept on telling that, Hey, this guy is really good and, you know, the family is really good and stuff, and then they wanted to reconsider it, and then we again sat down as a family. So this happened. My marriage thing was a, was a, uh, it's a, it's a story for itself, frankly speaking.

Ajay Naveen: So one fine evening, both the family meet, uh, we catch up nice for, for dinner. We discuss this thing. Both the family likes each other. The next weekend. So they, uh, the people from my wife's, uh, family side, they came visiting my, uh, place and uh, couple of days later we went to her place. We, we did all this rituals, whatever stuff, and then three, uh, two days from there we got engaged.

Ajay Naveen: So it was all like, in eight days, the whole stuff happened from nothing, no idea to getting engaged. Okay? It happened in, in eight days, right? And okay, marriage was fixed, I think. Uh, okay, when did I get married? It's, yeah, April, April, April, uh, 25th. Uh, I got married and, uh, this person, I should definitely mention it here.

Ajay Naveen: This person is a real source of inspiration. Like she understood me. So that's something that not a lot of people would do and not a lot of people would accept. She understood me, she understood the reality. She stood by my sight, right? Uh, you rightly pointed out when I got married, actual tag, if you have to give me, was a failed entrepreneur.

Ajay Naveen: That's the tack that you, right. Uh, would anyone would give me, or I myself would give, give me Right. Failed entrepreneur. She was brave enough to accept this particular fact. She believed in me that I would definitely come up. Right. So with all these things, you know, the moment she started believing in me, then I got back my, you know, this 20 11 20, uh, wipes, you know, there's 20 11, 20 10 wipes, right?

Ajay Naveen: That energy, that energy started coming in. Then I thought, okay, let's, let me start this, right? So let's, let's do this again. If I can build something up from the scratch back then, then I'm even more matured right now and I can do this. So that's, that's when, right. I started working on this and that's how Happy Meals again got continued.

Ajay Naveen: The No straining program and all got continued. Right. And there were times when we were financially really, uh, down and stuff, but, uh Right. She was, she was making up for that. She was working. She, she still working. Okay. Um, okay. Uh, she, she, uh, make, uh, made up, she ensured that the basics are met so that I don't have this, uh, headache of burden of what to do if this, this money doesn't come this time.

Ajay Naveen: Right. So, got it. So, so that's, she's a very great, uh, source of support to me till date. Right. And, uh, frankly speaking, I wouldn't have reached this level if not for her. Right. That, that kind of push. Right. And that motivation you need, you need someone to believe in you and. You, you really don't know what kind of high that gives you and that can push you to miles.

Ajay Naveen: Right? So this, this really happened and yeah, 2016 Happy Miles inhouse started and started making some, uh, money as well. Quality, good, uh, money as well. Yeah.

Djagmo: Great. Great. Aj, I think, uh, you, uh, said a while back about good life, good life, I think, uh, so far it's been the case for you. Mm-hmm. Um, congratulations.

Djagmo: Thank you. And, uh, I hope you know, uh, that's the way it's gonna be, uh, throughout your life and, uh, my best wishes for that. Thank you. Um, now, uh, coming back to your classroom training, uh, while the Happy Miles were still continuing, you had a freelancer doing your aptitude portions of it, and then, you know, you spoke about isles coming in, probably that's the starting point of Maple.

Djagmo: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So could you, you know, uh, walk us through that. How did Isles start off? Was it because, you know, you said that you had exposure with ISS because of your gmat, uh, journey, and uh, uh, did you see a market or did somebody coming in for inquiry, uh, ask for ISS training? How did that all

Ajay Naveen: happen?

Ajay Naveen: Uh, there was a market for ISS for sure. There was a market for aisles because, uh, during my preparation, I wanted to inquire about those ISS because I had no idea about iss. So I, I felt that, you know, personally, I should sign up, uh, with a company who can professionally teach this, because I didn't really want to screw my, um, MBA thing, right?

Ajay Naveen: So, but the moment I started doing my research about tiles, it was all about English, right? It was about English. And if you have, if you know the strategies, if you can, uh, understand how it actually works, then you can actually nail it, right? So initially when I gave all these institutes a call, it was very expensive and they charged a good amount.

Ajay Naveen: Uh, and that is when I understood, okay, Isles has a market, right? And they keep you on waiting list as well. They tell you that this batch is full. So if at all you're really interested, you have to come for the next batch that starts in another month or so. So then I understood, okay, so many people, right?

Ajay Naveen: Okay, a lot of people are trying this thing. And Isles has this two things, you know, one is the academic and the other one is gentle. So academic is for people who go, uh, to other countries for their study purpose, for any other purpose, immigration, purpose of work, or the other things, right? So again, you, your, your audience level is, again, growing wide.

Ajay Naveen: You were catering the students as well as professionals, right? Wider audience range, right? So Alice was always there, and, uh, when I started this communication skills and, uh, you know, aptitude, another thing, I just wanted to give this a try, just to diversify, to have more things on the bucket. Like I, I added aisles as well on the name board.

Ajay Naveen: Okay, so we had ISS training also also done Right. And um, on this, just dial on the sole we mentioned iss. What happened was I started getting a lot of inquiry for iss. I was, I personally was surprised with this thing. So at, during that part particular point in time, I knew a lot about academic is than the gender iss.

Ajay Naveen: Right. But started coming in for gender ISS academic is, that was a combination. Student students started coming in. So one student, I mean, that's the beauty of the SYNO training. Ah, so you do a good job with the student. He always has this five friends. So five friends start coming in. Right. So they bring in their friends and people started walking in.

Ajay Naveen: Right? So right at the point in time, I had to shut down all the other courses. I was doing business English, I was doing communicative English. And, um, uh, I, I was doing personality. I had to stop all the other things. I had to cater only to iss. I st this, this literally became an isles institute at, at one point in time.

Ajay Naveen: Got it. Uh, 20 16, 20 17. This became an Isles Institute. Lot of people, uh, students were there equally, I was seeing working professionals walking into office and asking, uh, please help me get a good band, cor, and I was wondering why these people all, all well settled, you know, like good positions. All these guys, why, why they, why do they want to come to a classroom?

Ajay Naveen: They used to come complete their work 6 37 in the evening, seven o'clock, they used to come in, sit with me till nine 10. They used to learn. I was wondering why these guys are spending a lot of time, energy, and effort. Then I started asking them like, what's the reason, why do you want to do this thing? So then they, they start talking about something called as pr, permanent residency visas.

Ajay Naveen: Mm-hmm. Right. And this is my first introduction to permanent residency visas. And they told me that Australia is giving permanent residency visas. Canada is giving permanent residency visas. Even you can settle down in uk and for all these things, you need this exam called science. Okay? And then I underst this is why you are into iss.

Ajay Naveen: I was teaching them, I was teaching them, and my people were also getting pretty decent scores and all I was getting good results. What really happened was 2017, uh, I had a couple of clients, you know, they were also into this gender ISS thing and, uh, I, they, they did their training here with, uh, happy Miles at that point in time to still call Happy Miles.

Ajay Naveen: They got their, uh, thing done with Happy Miles and that's it. Um, my, my thing was done. They left. Few days back, they again came back, uh, and they told, Hey, this is the score that we got. Thank you so much and all. Then they asked me this question, aj, can you please uh, refer a good consultant who can do this Canadian P Visa thing?

Ajay Naveen: Right. Please refer a good consultancy and in our place, right? So for this Canadian P Visa thing, ego or something that didn't allow me to say boss, sorry, I don't know. Right? So your ego doesn't allow you to say that, right? Because they think that you are, you are a not all kind of a thing. I didn't want to break that reputation, so I don't first gimme two days time.

Ajay Naveen: I will tell you the correct consultancy. Then in this two days, what I did, I went to Google just like what every other person would do. I went to Google, did all the research, just an online search. Maybe I would've spent like, what, maximum 15 to 20 minutes looking at all the websites. F found out the one which was very professional, having Pan India offices and stuff.

Ajay Naveen: Obviously when you see this, this, uh, consultancy is having officers in like 12 cities. This should be the best, right? And they're doing it not only for Canada. They're doing it for 12 other countries. Oh, okay. Then they are the best in the market. So I thought this to myself, call my clients and I told them, Hey, hands down, best consultancy in na place.

Ajay Naveen: That's it. Right? And, uh, what happened? These people, they had a very good relationship because, you know, any training program would go between one to two, two and a half months, right? So when two and a half months, when, and it's one to one, it's personal, not a classroom kind of training. I used to do it one to one.

Ajay Naveen: I sit with clients and I do it. So the relationship would always be there, uh, with, with all my clients, right? So I had very good client relationship with these guys. So they blindly, without even a second thought, without even, uh, going through the reviews or something, they, they went to this institute, uh, consultancy.

Ajay Naveen: They signed up to the consultancy three months, four months. I never heard anything from them. No clue what they were doing and stuff, nothing. What really happened was, you know, one fine day, one fine day, they, they were at my office and I was really surprised to see them, uh, at, at my office space. And they sat down with me and they told me about their bad experience with that particular consultancy.

Ajay Naveen: So what really happened was like, these guys have paid a huge sum as a first installment was not even the full thing. The first installment itself was a huge sum. They paid on 70, 75, 80,000 bucks with this consultancy. And, uh, what happened was the consultancy had taken the money and they were trying to serve him, but nothing really was good.

Ajay Naveen: And, uh, the consultancy, the person, the point of contact kept on changing. And the other person was asking for more money. They were asking, then they were showing them this, you already signed. You cannot. So they literally, these two guys literally lost their money. So they came to, uh, came back to my office and they told me as I see this is what happened.

Ajay Naveen: So make sure from the next time onwards, I'm, I know for a fact that there are a lot of people who are doing genderly for this PR thing. They might also ask the same question, like, what we ask, but make sure next time don't refer, refer not this consultancy. And also you make sure that they're really good.

Ajay Naveen: So they didn't complain to me, they didn't blame me. But feedback, yeah, that's a feedback. But I, that really made me feel really guilty because like 1.5 ax was at stake and uh, I felt responsible. I was the one who told them like, you should go, go stick with them, right? So I really felt responsible and then I took it, uh, personal.

Ajay Naveen: I took it more serious. And in fact, there were a lot of people who are doing this genderize with me for this Canadian and Australian pr. And they used to ask me as I do, you know, some consultancy and they used to talk about some consultancy and stuff. And, uh, that is when I told myself, okay, if I'm in this business of helping people with tiles, obviously people are gonna come and ask me this question.

Ajay Naveen: So before they come and ask me, let me go and find out who's the best in the market. So then what I did, I started stepping into all these consultancies office, all the Kennedy, Canadian pr, visa consultancy office. I started stepping in, I started, uh, I asked them the first company, the consultancy, I went. I told them I, I want to get a Canadian PR thing, so I want to understand who's the best.

Ajay Naveen: So these guys asked me to pay an upfront cost of like initial, like two, 3000 rupees. The moment you step in just for the evaluation report, so the way they present it to you, you will think that okay, you have to pay it, otherwise you cannot get it later. I, you don't even have to pay that money. But a, that's a different story.

Ajay Naveen: But this is the, this is the process that they follow. 2000, 3000 bucks. They ask you, then they will ask you to wait. They will tell you the report will get generated maybe in, in a day or two. Then you have to wait anxiously for the report, and then the report comes and it says, yes, you are eligible. Right?

Ajay Naveen: And then they tell you this thing. The next response would be, congratulations. You're eligible, you, this is the payment. So 1.5 x two lax, this is how we charge. You can pay it in two installments, upfront cost of 70,000, 80,000 bucks. Then once you get this thing, you pay another 80,000 bucks and the last 40,000 maybe later, they, they split it across plus gst, right?

Ajay Naveen: And I was like, wait, this is all going too fast for me. You told me that I'm eligible. I understand what's the process? How does it all work? Right? And for this, they didn't have an answer. They told me, don't worry about that. We will take care. Just pay the money. We can start, you'll get the pi. Lot of things we are missing in between.

Ajay Naveen: Right. And I'm trying to figure out, I mean, I'm an entrepreneur. I, I know things I, I, I have to ask this question. Maybe another person may not ask the question, but I should definitely ask the question. What is the process? By the way, how do you say that I'll get the pr, how long is it going to take and how, how much is going?

Ajay Naveen: Does it going to cost me for the whole process and will I be able to get a job? I had hell, a lot of questions in my head when, when it comes to this Kennedy and PR thing, right? So consultancy one never answered me. Then I jumped to consultancy Two, I understand. It is the same process. I told them, I already have the report.

Ajay Naveen: The report is common. It's from Canada, right? The report cannot change. I cannot get a 68 points here and I cannot get a 65 points there. It has to be the same. But this consultancy said, no, no, it is done. From that consultancy, you have to again, repay the money. So pay them again. Same process, right? Ask them this question.

Ajay Naveen: No answer, no proper explanation. Then it got fishy. Okay? Then I, what I did, I went into nearly almost all the decent level consultancies here in Kwaito. Then I start calling con consultancies in Bangalore . I even walked a few of these consultancies in Chennai and uh, Bangalore. Right? Then it was after doing a research of like with top 20, 25 consultancies, they follow the same pattern.

Ajay Naveen: In fact, the pitch is also the same. Right, right. And I was like wondering, how can you guys do this when you're, it's a high ticket thing, right? Lacks Yes. Yes. It's a lot money. Listen, it's a lot of money. It's a high ticket thing. How can you get this money when you, when you, I'm, I really doubt whether you know the process or not.

Ajay Naveen: Maybe that's the reason why you're withing this thing from me. So you get all these doubts in your head, right? And I was wondering what these consultancies are doing, or I was convincing myself maybe this is how it actually works, right? So maybe there is no other option. This is how it actually works, and this is the amount you'll have to pay them, right?

Ajay Naveen: Uh, this is, this was, this was going on, this was going on in one, one part of it. This was one happening, happening here in this, this aspect of my life. On the other hand, what happened was I was continuing with my business. Uh, happy Miles was going, this training was going on. I, when I started doing this research about Canada, you start falling in love with the country.

Ajay Naveen: You know, you start looking at videos, how beautiful the country is, how people are, and you know, this fascination again, started coming in. You remember this 2015 thing, GMAT going abroad? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This fascination again, started creeping in, okay. So I thought Canada, and this time, you don't even have to go steady there.

Ajay Naveen: It's directly going and enjoying you work. Go there. So, should I try, should I try? This kind of a thing started coming in, right? 20 16, 20 17. This was also there in my mind, 2017. Incidentally what happened was my wife's, uh, cousin, brother. Uh, wives, uh, father's brothers son. So we call it s son. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ajay Naveen: So you get it. So, um, he was, she was a Canadian PR holder. He couldn't come for a marriage, so he was not there. Okay. There for a marriage. Right. So she was, I I have never seen this guy before. I, I never heard this guy before, right? So she was on call, WhatsApp, call, video call one day and she introduced me, uh, during the call she introduced me, Hey, this is aj.

Ajay Naveen: And he was like, Hey aj, this is me Brau. And like, this is what we do. How are you and stuff, general conversation, you know, nothing big. But I was very curious, you know, he was there in Canada, so I was very curious. So I asked him, uh, brother, like, can you please tell me how did you get your PR visa? Because I'm also into this isle space.

Ajay Naveen: When I told him that I was into Isle space, he got interested. Really? Okay, cool. Like, I scored 6.5 and I really, uh, it was really hard for me to put in and he was telling feedback stories and we were connecting really well, you know, and I asked him like, Hey, how did you get your, uh, Caribbean peer thing?

Ajay Naveen: Because there are a lot of clients were trying to find out a good consultancy, but we couldn't find, and I mentioned the name of the consultancy and, uh, where my, uh, client got, you know, screwed. So I told him, then he told me, that's the same consultancy that screwed me as well, right? Like, he had paid like one, 1.5, but end of the day it was his friend who was already there in Canada who helped him in the complete process and.

Ajay Naveen: He has been to Canada, so let me, this money was gone down the, down, down the drain. Right? Right. So then he told me, okay, don't worry, I have, uh, his contact, I have my friend, you can refer my name, he'll talk to you. He's also from Ka Lado, so you'll have that connect. So I'll connect, uh, you with this guy, so you have a word with him.

Ajay Naveen: So then what happens? I connect with his friend who's, who's already there in Canada, right? From 20 12, 20 13 onwards. I guess he has a very good, uh, experience about all these things. So then when I start talking to him, he was the one who gave me the complete picture and how these consultancies make a business out of this thing, right?

Ajay Naveen: Mm-hmm. So he gave me the picture. He told me, Hey, aj, this is not rocket science, right? So they, they, they don't tell you because they don't want you to know. That's the reason why these consultancies, they don't tell you, right? Because if you know the process, then you are not going to be with them, right?

Ajay Naveen: That's the reason why they don't tell you. And see, let me tell you. And he started sending me all the links. He started sharing PDFs related to all these things. And he told me, aj, you go read it for yourself. You'll, you'll be able to do it, Matt. It's pretty simple. So you start, you just read all these things.

Ajay Naveen: Then what I do with his materials, I started doing my research. I got interested. By now I was sold out to the idea that, okay, Canada, we should also go. I was really sold out, uh, of this particular idea. Then I, uh, I wanted to test this. Whether it's really working or not. I wanted to test this. So obviously the rat testing rat here was me, myself or tested myself right At the same time, what happened, one of my very close friend, his sister was there in Canada, so he thought like, he should also apply very close friend, you know, like we are like Mama Mak kind of thing, right?

Ajay Naveen: I told him, Hey, I'm doing this process for myself. He was about to pay money to consultancy. I told him, wait, don't pay any money. You don't even have to pay me as well. I will do it anyways. I'm doing it for me. I will do it for you as well. Got it. Right? So let's, let's do this. And, and obviously he's a very close friend.

Ajay Naveen: He cannot say no, right? So he said, okay, let's, let's do this. Uh, one advantage that he had was he had a sister there in Canada, so that gave him additional points. So he, I thought I'll be the first to get the invitation on other things, but he got his invitation, his file got processed first. Right? Okay. So now it was not my profile.

Ajay Naveen: I was testing, it was my friend's profile. I was like a bit nervous now because I, nothing should go wrong because it is my friend and it'll be a very sad, uh, story if it doesn't really go well. Right? But I was really confident. I did a lot of research. I spent in a lot of ask time learning this even to the minute details.

Ajay Naveen: I, I learned it and then I started doing this thing. And what happened was he got his pr so, uh,

Djagmo: invitation is sent. Uh, that's

Ajay Naveen: the first step. Correct. So what happens is, let's say thousand people apply out of that. Okay? 50 people. A hundred people, 200 people get picked and they receive an invitation. Only those people will be able to proceed with pr.

Djagmo: So that is when, uh, people start going to consultancies

Ajay Naveen: after the No, no, no, no. For the start of the process. They go to the consultancy.

Djagmo: Oh. But then, uh, it, it's not sure they're gonna get picked from the lot, right? No.

Ajay Naveen: It's sort what really happens here with Canadian PR visa besides that. So basically, um, that'll be a pool of people.

Ajay Naveen: So basically you need to do some formalities to become eligible to apply. So what you do the first, that is what

Djagmo: is, uh, I also

Ajay Naveen: part, yes. ISS is also a part. So iles is a basic eligibility, uh, requirement. A criteria if you want to apply for a criteria. So you need to take a piles, right? So once you complete that, you'll have to fill an application, right?

Ajay Naveen: So once you fill an application, what happens? You get the points. You get points based on what the details, your age, your education, your work experience, your Canadian affinity, adaptability, all these things based on different, different factors. There are some points to it. Okay? And you'll get a point against your name.

Ajay Naveen: For example, my point was 471. Alright? And, uh, that was my score at that point in time, right? Like with each person with a different score will be there. And what happens is every 15 days, once government of Canada used to conduct a drop, right? Right. And they will set a cutoff score. Every 15 days. 15 days.

Ajay Naveen: Once on a Wednesday 15, they, they conduct a draw and they will set a cutoff score. Okay. So basically this cutoff score is like anyone who's having a score greater than the cutoff score. For example, they, let's say they set a cutoff score of four 70. Now my score is 4 71. Anyone who's above 4 71 will get picked and they will receive an invitation.

Djagmo: Oh, anyone and everyone above four 70 score, right?

Ajay Naveen: They will get an invitation. But the thing is that the way they set the score is they'll be able to issue only 3000 invitations or 4,000 invitations. Um, that'll be, got it. Three to four. Like people there can be lacks and lacks of people together, but out of that, only 3000 or 4,000 people will get picked in a particular drop.

Djagmo: But, uh, all these 4,000 people, if they do the process well, it

Ajay Naveen: is confirm, depends on your score. Right? Now, it all depends on your score. Okay. So without the score, it's not possible for you to get it. So you need to have that score in order to, uh, get it right. So the cutoff score may not come down drastically.

Ajay Naveen: If there are a lot of people with the four 70 score, why should it come to 4 69? Because there are so many people in four 70 s, right? So they're already meeting their target.

Djagmo: No, no, no. Yeah, that is fine. But I'm, I'm saying whoever has meta score of four 70 or whatever the cutoff score is. If, uh, there is no more, uh, chance after that, if you do the process, will, you're getting your credit correct?

Djagmo: No,

Ajay Naveen: there is a chance of you getting rejected even after a invitation if you are doing your documentation wrong, ah, that is another process. So once you get your invitation, then comes the real process. That is documentation. So documentation is the most tricky part because every document has to be to the point.

Ajay Naveen: Otherwise they don't even ask you for anything. Like they will directly reject you. Simply reject you, right? So you have to be really clear with your documentation part. So, got it. When

Djagmo: your

Ajay Naveen: friend gets an, he gets an invitation, all of a sudden I didn't get an invitation. He gets an invitation, and now the documentation has to be done.

Ajay Naveen: I really wanted to test the documentation on myself first before I start this to my friend, right? I had to do this for my friend. Now I cannot tell him like, I'm nervous, then he's going to hit me. Left, right, center, right? So, um, then what really happened was I never showed that I was nervous, but I did the process.

Ajay Naveen: Like we, we started this thing and the complete documentation was done. I proofread it like again, multiple times. I even shared it with few of my contacts through my, you know, my wife's cousin, I, I crosscheck, all those things. Everything was okay. I was confident. And then we went ahead and we submitted it.

Ajay Naveen: 2018, he received his PR. That was a game changing moment. Right? So when he received the pr, literally I told myself I have saved two La Rupe for my friend. That was the, that was something that I had, oh my God, I'm able to save two LA rupees for my friend. Right? So that was a great feeling. Right now, my thing got even more confident.

Ajay Naveen: Like my, my, I knew that whatever I'm doing, I'm on the right track. The way I'm researching, it's all working because I already tested it. It is working with one person. Right? Right. Then what I did, 2017 Fag in 2018, when he got his pr, April, I think he got his, uh, no, a few months back. 20 18, 20 17, and he got his pr.

Ajay Naveen: Okay. Uh, he landed in 2018 though, uh, 2018. What I did was I opened this thing Canadian PR Visa Services only for my i l clients, right? So I didn't do any special marketing. I already had people coming in, uh, for ISS training, right. To those people. I told them, Hey, you are here for ISS training. Obviously next, once this is, this is done, you're obviously going to sign up with a consultancy for this thing.

Ajay Naveen: This is what I'm doing. If you're interested, I can continue the services. I can help you with your PR process as well. So literally, I spent zero rupees on marketing because these are already my clients. Yeah, yeah. People who believed in me, they signed up with me. For this, again, the whole thing, right? So then one, two people started signing up and what happened was, um, 2017 end, uh, another client of mine, she signed up, she cleared her, her rails, we did the process and she got her PR again, second person.

Ajay Naveen: Okay. Got the pr, okay. And now I was like super confident. Now I know, okay, this is something that's actually working. Because the more you do, the more experience that you get, the more understand you get, right? So then I thought told myself, okay, if this is the thing, let me do this. So that is when Maple Assistance came so Happy.

Ajay Naveen: Miles was only into Isles, so I didn't want Happy Miles, I didn't want the name. So Happy Miles was out, maple assistance. So it was related to Canada. So Canada assistance, that's how Maple assistance, maple assistance came into picture. And now I had time only to help people on Isles and the Canadian PI thing, right?

Ajay Naveen: So, got it. What I did, I started, uh, doing, uh, seminars in cities like Chennai, uh, Cochen, Bangalore, my place. We used to, uh, I used to get a space, uh, we used to book halls. We used to conduct, uh, um, this awareness, digital marketing stuff about the thing. And people used to sign up and they, they kind came and came in good numbers.

Ajay Naveen: They, they participated in the sessions. I explained them the process. I explained them what consultancies do. I explained them what I do, maple assistance, uh, do. Right. And the, by this time I had a proper narrative. I had a proper idea of what Maple assistance is into. I had a strong u s P web. Everything was all set.

Ajay Naveen: And I started pitching this to people and people who resonated with the idea, people who are, uh, able to feel the wipe. They started signing up with maple assistance. So then, right, 2018 it started taking off, maple assistance started taking off, and I started getting a lot of, uh, plan in terms of, uh, Canadian PR Visa.

Djagmo: Got it. Great. This is, this was a very, uh, in-depth narration of, you know, how Maple assistance came about. And it's pretty fascinating. You know, you just, you didn't even know about, there was a point when you didn't even know that there is a general, uh, PR and, you know, people go for, uh, immigration. Mm-hmm.

Djagmo: And then you get interested in the whole Canada thing. And I, I think you got your pr.

Ajay Naveen: Yeah. Uh, I started 2017, I started, so the problem was, uh, I didn't have the points. The cutoff score was around four 40 and mine was around four 30 s. So that eight points was always lagging. So in order to match the eight points, I had to do another degree, uh, namesake degree, at least to increase the points.

Ajay Naveen: So I did another degree for one year. I did a PhD diploma in business administration for one year. And by this time what happened was, like covid came 2019, I got my degree, I had to do a assessment for that degree. That was 2019 n 2020. When I applied, uh, when I reentered the pool, the express entry pool, that is when Covid came, right.

Ajay Naveen: Again, the draws didn't happen. And, uh, all these things fluctuated. And, um, they used, they used to connect draws every 15 days once. And the problem is with Canada, the moment you turn 30, you start losing five points for your age, you know, every year. Every year. Yeah. So number first was actually my, is actually my birthday.

Ajay Naveen: And I didn't receive an invitation yet. It was already October. I was really nervous, really anxious, like, because number first comes, you lose five points, then the chances of you getting an invitation is going to go further down. Right? And one draw before my birthday, this invitation came up. It was like, it was scripted, looked really scripted, you know, but it was God was, uh, you know, writing a beautiful script, I believe.

Ajay Naveen: So one, one, uh, draw the, the last drop before my birthday, I received an invitation. Now when I look back at, uh, time, if it was not for that particular drop, even 2023, I would not have received my mutation because the score has never came down to that layer. So, great. That happened. 2020, I received an invitation.

Ajay Naveen: During the Covid, I received the invitation, then I completed my documentation and all. And uh, again, my. Whole file was put on hold because of the second wave of Covid that happened 20, 21, 18 months. No news at all. Literally, I forgot that I have applied for Canadian pire. It was like that. You didn't really know, and it was a very testing time.

Ajay Naveen: You know, you don't know what to do. Uh, you don't know whether to expand here in India, buy a house or you I was, I was 31, 32. You're in a state of flights. Yeah. Yeah. So not sure where to invest in, what to do with life and stuff. Uh, totally confused. I was in a black hole for like good 18 months, and then finally last year to July, I received a stamping on my passport and got it.

Ajay Naveen: And I booked my flight. So next, next month, uh, I'm actually leaving March 24th is my flight. So yeah. Great,

Djagmo: great. We'll, we'll definitely talk about, there are a lot of other things that I have in my mind that I want to like question you on, you know, the whole stuff. But, you know, coming back to Maple assistance, um, so, so far how many people have got pr uh, under you?

Djagmo: Like how many people have

Ajay Naveen: you helped get pr We have, uh, there are six people in Canada who have got their PR visa through maple assistance. So six might not sound like a big number. But in this industry, this niche, that's a number, frankly speaking for itself.

Djagmo: Because yeah, I think considering the Covid break, no correct.

Ajay Naveen: Yourself, didn't get anything. Two years is washed out, completely washed out. So 2018 I started, so literally I had 2018 to 2019. That's one year, 2019 to 2020. Maybe that's another, maybe you can give it another six, eight months. And from there, two years was washed out, and now another year. So it should be approx three years.

Ajay Naveen: Three years. This is a very good number. And another client has got his invitation. We have completed the documentation. So he will be following me to Canada, um, probably by August or September. That is another person who has, again, done the documentation. There are two people who have completed the documentation and waiting for the stamping.

Ajay Naveen: So, uh, this number will increase to eight or nine by end of this year. So, which according to me is a very good number because it's not, and it's only going to increase now. It's only gonna increase. Yeah. And, uh, from now on, yeah, obviously. So I, I really wish that, you know, a lot of people get their PR visas too.

Ajay Naveen: I have closed about, uh, 700 odd clients, 600 to 700 odd clients right now across India as well as across the globe. Uh, now I have clients from, uh, middle East who are signing up. I have clients from Canada itself, you know, who are there on temporary resident visas. They, they are signed up with me plus assistance for their PR visas.

Ajay Naveen: So it's, so

Djagmo: what are you. What is the 600 700 clients you're talking about? They have signed up with you for the

Ajay Naveen: Correct, for the PR process? Yeah. Correct, correct,

Djagmo: correct. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. So obviously this six is going to, and all these

Ajay Naveen: people have received their information. No, no, no, no, no. It's very difficult.

Ajay Naveen: The conversions would not be, it's like, okay, 1% conversion or 0.5% conversion. If I'm able to see in this industry, if out of the 600, if I'm able to convert one percentage, it is like I'm the master of this industry. I'm in the, I'm the topper of this particular industry. Like it's like that. Got it. You know, so, got it.

Ajay Naveen: That's, that's how this industry is. Right. But, uh,

Djagmo: but your conversion from the point of invitation is gonna be way higher. Right? From

Ajay Naveen: point of invitation to pr, it is a hundred percent. Hundred percent. Hundred percent, hundred percent. Right. No doubts about that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. See, if you ask me about the documentation part, I have done it for six of my clients.

Ajay Naveen: But on top of that, my sister, she's a PR holder now. So that documentation also, I was the one who helped her out. Brother-in-law, again, PR holders there in Canada. Again, I helped them out in the documentation. Couple of my friends. Again, uh, part of the documentation. I'm not putting them all in the client bracket, but still the effort and the work is all the same.

Ajay Naveen: Right. So Right. In terms of experience, it's not just the experience of six people, it is more than that and including my file. So it's more than that. Yeah. Got it.

Djagmo: So your is straining is still going on. I straining is still going. Is that your, is that your main, uh, lead generation process as well for the

Ajay Naveen: PR consultants?

Ajay Naveen: Uh, no, I'm not using ISS as the lead generation thing for me right now. The narrative of PR itself is generating good leads, is now the Canadian PR Visa. I have now become a part of the program. So now I have included ISS a part of the program. So I have a trainer who the training. Got it,

Djagmo: got it, got it, got it.

Djagmo: And I have, so Isles alone is not your, uh, flagship director. Such isles has become part of the, so if somebody wants to learn only isles

Ajay Naveen: from you, you're not doing it doing it, still doing it, yeah. That can also be done. What I did right now is I've, I've created a self paced course, uh, uh, the Isle self pace program, so people who wants to take part in that, they can do it.

Ajay Naveen: And that is a live session going on four times a week. So this live also keeps going on. Right. My, I have a trainer who's taking care of my live sessions, so they can take part in my, uh, they can, they can watch my, uh, self-paced program course as well, as well as in addition to it, they can, uh, uh, learn this, uh, I mean learn from my trainer on during the live sessions as well.

Ajay Naveen: So that again, is a possibility. This can also be done.

Djagmo: Got it. That's it. And, um, you are a solo printer now,

Ajay Naveen: now with, yeah, now, now I'm a solo printer, correct. Yeah. I have two, I have a team in Delhi who's taking care of the digital marketing and stuff, but it's, it's a, they're an agency. I outsource it to them and

Djagmo: agency, I outsource it to them.

Djagmo: They're all your supporting, but largely you, you would probably fall under the follow

Ajay Naveen: Absolutely. That bracket. Yeah, for

Djagmo: sure. Yeah. And, uh, that's how you are, you know, kind of envisioning yourself down the line. Got it. At least also. Okay. And, uh, as you said, you know, it's way more comfortable for you. There are a lot of other, so, you know, first we were talking about, uh, the difference between people who are working and then being an entrepreneur.

Djagmo: Now, an entrepreneur itself, there is a huge difference between being a solopreneur and then, you know, running a team, having a company and all those. Correct? Correct. Got it. And, um, when, when you are moving away, right, when you're, uh, changing your primary, uh, place of residence to another country, uh, now how does that impact your entrepreneurship, this maple assistance

Ajay Naveen: thing?

Ajay Naveen: Um, frankly speaking, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I really don't know what's going to happen once I move to Canada, but I have a vague idea like, this is what I'm going to do. Right. So, okay. Uh, in Canada there are a lot of students who go to Canada on, on a study permit, and all these students, they, they spend a lot of money thinking that they can settle down in the country.

Ajay Naveen: If they don't settle down, it's not gonna make sense for them. Right. Okay. So my intention is to help those students. Who wants to settle down there, right? Mm-hmm. And, and these guys, they have spent already, uh, uh, lacks and lacks of money on their education. Again, if, if at all they want to get their PR visa done through a immigration lawyer, it's gonna cost another $5,006,000 over there, which I can literally get it done for maybe what?

Ajay Naveen: Like thousand thousand $500 I can save. Um, uh, a huge sum of money for, yeah, for these students, one and number two, uh, again, a very big hurdle to all these guys. Uh, one big hurdle is the language test. That is a particular band score that you need to take. For example, when I say a particular band score, let's say eight and triple 77, 8 in listening, and seven in all the other modules.

Ajay Naveen: Let's say ju you take a test and you scored nine, which is the top in the module, right? You scored nine and three modules, and you score only 5.5 in one module, but your overall score is still decent, 7.58. In spite of having an excellent overall score, you have to repeat aisles again by paying another, say, 15, 16,000 bucks, right?

Ajay Naveen: Why? Because you scored five less than one. So when it comes to Canadian pr, the, the score. The, the threshold score is really important. Right, right. So people fail to do that. Right. So I can, I can also help them out on this aspect, on, in terms of aisles. Right. Right. And one more advantage is when, when I'm there in Canada, it is easy for me to pitch myself because I'm, I'm walking my talk.

Ajay Naveen: Right. So people will understand. Okay. Exactly. Yeah. You've

Djagmo: already gone

Ajay Naveen: through the drill. Yeah, I've gone through the drill. So I have a proven track record and I've done it for myself. So I've done it for my clients. Now I can also help the other person, so that confidence would also be there. And now I can easily go reach out to the international market, so right now.

Ajay Naveen: Got it. I'm confined to see when, whenever I say that, you know, I, I am having clients from Middle East. It is not the Middle East client itself. It is the, it is our guy who's there in Middle East. Right, and, and our guy who's there in Canada. But now I can reach, once I go to Canada, I can reach out to international audience as well.

Ajay Naveen: So we can, I can reach, yeah, you're in Canada itself, so, so that becomes a, a hub, you know, like then it's easy for me to pitch myself so that now I'm, I'm thinking of expansions, right? So all other, going international. Going international and expanding this thing and making a system around it. And also I have a plan of, you know, getting myself equipped and licensed.

Ajay Naveen: So you need to have a license if you want to do it. Yeah. Uh, if you want to represent a client, you need to have the license. So I'm thinking of getting myself licensed there. Once I go there. Right now what I'm doing is a completely different, uh, program. It's an education, kind of a program, which we will definitely talk about, but, uh, once I move there, like planning to get myself a license so that, uh, I can represent, I can start representing people from across the country.

Ajay Naveen: So that's also going to help the cost, right? And there are other ventures as well, which is there in my mind. So one thing that I didn't tell you is from 2011 till 2016, I have put my hands in five to six different industries. So, but I always ensured that I stick to my strength. My strength is training, my strength is, you know, talking to people, convincing and selling.

Ajay Naveen: Always great. I have stuck to my strength, but I have tried out other industries as well. I tried my hand with other industries as well. Yeah. Other businesses as well. So I, I've got some ideas, um, on, on the tech side of it. Edu EdTech actually speaking Yeah. On the edutech aspect of it. So, uh, let's see, let's see what, what the future holds.

Ajay Naveen: We really don't know if everything goes well for sure. Right. Uh, um, thinking of pitching in and, you know, getting all these things done. Yeah. That might also can happen. So in addition to Maple assistance, I might be starting up couple of other companies aspect once I'm there. Yeah. Got

Djagmo: it. Aj, uh, you were talking about, you know, you've closed, uh, 600, 700 clients, you know, where, uh, you're looking at a one person conversion, which itself you said is gonna be, you know, a big thing for you if that happens now, 1% is one thing, but how did you, uh, you know, what was the process you followed to, you know, get this 600, 700 clients and did it, you know, was it successful right from the start or how many its that you had to go through to get that, uh, model working for you?

Ajay Naveen: See, frankly speaking, it took me some time to figure out the model, which I'm going to work, but the moment I figure out like, this is what I'm going to do, then I, things started fall, falling in place without, uh, uh, any hassle. So I used to have this webinar funnel. That's my funnel actually, so, okay. Uh, this is how it works.

Ajay Naveen: I run ads. And, uh, these leads come into a WhatsApp group and inside the group, like we share the link, uh, to this particular webinar, people attend the webinar, and inside the webinar, I explain them the process, I explain them about maple assistance, and I give them an offer. I make an offer and people sign up using the offer.

Ajay Naveen: So this is, this is the funnel, right. Frankly speaking, this is working great for me without any hassles because a person who's serious about getting a Canadian PR visa, when he sits, when he attends this to our session with me, hands down, this is a best solution for him. Nice. I've created it that way.

Ajay Naveen: Right. So Right. Cost effective. It's a transparent process. This person gets educated, he's learning, and he doesn't have to fear mistakes or fear of failure. That, that part, I'm completely taking it out. Right, right. So what tells you need, right? So you are saving the money and at the same time you're, you're achieving or you are, you're reaching your goal, what else you need?

Ajay Naveen: Right. So anyone with, uh, a real intention of getting the Canadian PR thing when he listens or when he sits inside the session? I, I give him a fantastic offer as well, which is not taxing the pockets. I, I give him an excellent offer so that, like he signs up right away. Right. Got it. So it's, it's, it's pretty simple.

Ajay Naveen: It's pretty smooth sailing for me. Yeah.

Djagmo: So, uh, this is the webinar you said that happens four times a week. The two hours

Ajay Naveen: session? No, no, no. That's the live session that happens. That's for the aisles part. The webinar happens once a week that

Djagmo: you use

Ajay Naveen: a trainer to correct. I, I have a trainer to do that, but webinar I do it once a week.

Djagmo: Once a week. And you are present in

Ajay Naveen: that? Yeah. Yeah. I, it's a live session. I do it personally and I answer questions. I take questions, I answer public questions, and then yeah, then people interested people, they sign up.

Djagmo: So how many participants you have attending this?

Ajay Naveen: Um, generally, uh, the numbers keep fluctuating.

Ajay Naveen: 2020. The numbers was huge, you know, like, uh, I used to get around like 500. My Zoom used to be full, like it's, it's 4 55, uh, month on month. This would be the numbers. Then, um, the numbers started coming down. Obviously it's the, it's a niche, right? So you, when you're doing the ads and other stuff, you know, numbers, the cost also keeps increasing.

Ajay Naveen: So right now I have, uh, every session I'll have anywhere around like, uh, one 20 to 1 50, 1 60 people attending the session. Um, okay. And this happens every week, week on week, uh, the session keeps happening.

Djagmo: Got it. Aja. Okay. Uh, so aj, uh, we were talking about, you know, uh, your process, uh, for the getting people onto your webinars, and then you said, uh, at one point, you know, there were about 500 participants.

Djagmo: You Zoom used to be full, uh, you used to run ads, and now, you know, you get about 120 every week. So, uh, can you. Help me understand. You said something about, you know, uh, your lead generation improving, but your leads decreasing from 500 to 120. Uh, what is that all about?

Ajay Naveen: See, one thing that I understood about this, uh, social media marketing and this thing is that, you know, um, Canadian PR is a very niche audience.

Ajay Naveen: It is not that, you know, you, it's, it's not a term like, um, online business or coaching or something like that. It's a niche, uh, audience. So what happens is that when you start running ads, you know, multiple times to the same audience, then at one point in time, the cost per acquisition actually goes up. Mm.

Ajay Naveen: But the quality of the ads, it's also, you know, it's improving because a person sees this for like four times, five times, then he thinks, okay, what is this? Then he start, then he signs up, right? So then the quality-wise, it's getting better. But again, in terms of the costing and in terms of number of people who are coming in, it is coming down because it's a niche market.

Ajay Naveen: So, obviously, and my thing is also to, it does, it is related to what is happening there in Canada. So if the Canadian immigration thing is really good, really prospective, they come up with a wonderful plan. Then here the number of people are the leads increase. Increase, right? There is something there. The draws are not happening.

Ajay Naveen: If it's gonna shut down or something, then again, it's going to decrease here. So it's, uh, directly related to what the government of Canada is, you know, planning and stuff. Right. So, got it. So that's where the fluctuation actually is. Right. And we are also still learning in terms of, you know, optimizing the ads and finding the right hit.

Ajay Naveen: We are still working on it. Right. It's been like three years, but yeah, still you have a lot of scope to improve and stuff. That's, that's about, I mean, you all, you know how, uh, social media is changing and evolving, right? Every, every week, every month, right? So obviously it's, it's too, um, difficult to say that, you know, I've nailed it or this is not working.

Ajay Naveen: So you keep learning and you make changes, you adjust to it, and you just move, move with that.

Djagmo: Got it. Aj, and, um, talking about your ads, what are the social media platforms you run your ads on?

Ajay Naveen: See, right now we are running on Instagram and on Facebook. We have not touched Google yet. Okay. And we have not tried YouTube yet.

Ajay Naveen: Um, these two platforms are giving us good numbers, and it's pretty, it's going pretty decent. So we have not, you know, diversified into Google, but Google and YouTube is all, um, it's there in back of my mind. Okay. Maybe we'll try it out this year. Sometime this year for sure. We will try. We'll, we, we will definitely be trying out this Google ad to see how it actually goes.

Djagmo: Got it. And you do this yourself, or you've outsourced this activity too?

Ajay Naveen: Uh, I have a team. I have a team, uh, from Delhi, uh, who are taking care of, uh, this thing. Okay. I actually have an idea. I've learned all these things, you know, when I decided, okay, this is how it's going to go. Uh, see, frankly speaking, what happened before the Covid Covid actually came into picture 2020.

Ajay Naveen: Hmm. But way before covid, what I did was I wanted to experiment this thing. Hmm. So I had my office open. I, I was paying rent to my office, but I was not working in my office. I told my owner that, okay, so I'm gonna try this. I'm going to, anyway, pay the rent. So it's not for, uh, free, it's not too late. I was paying him the rent, but I was operating online, trying and seeing how it's actually going to work.

Ajay Naveen: So 2019 fag and I started trying out this online thing that by catering to wider audience and all these, just before the pandemic hit you, just before the pandemic hit, I was working out on different platforms, seeing how it works and, uh, know, uh, to, to try, because that way I can reach to more audience.

Ajay Naveen: So that was, that was the only thing that was there in my mind. Right. And I came to know about Facebook ads and how it all works. So I wanted to experiment. It was like a, a toy in a child's hand. Like I wanted to experiment with this thing. And, uh, eventually what happened, 20 19, 20 20 and all, I had a 50, 60% idea of selling online.

Ajay Naveen: Right. That thing, I figured that out. 2020, like Covid came and it was a, I mean I should not say this, but for me it was really good. Covid came because everyone were there in front of the laptop and the whole narrative changed. It was all happening on the laptop. Right. And people came in at large numbers, they started flocking in.

Ajay Naveen: Right. And I was already used to this. For me it was not new. Right. Right. So it all came that the timing really mattered and worked out wonders for me. So 2020 literally took off like crazy.

Djagmo: Okay. And these are the times that you were doing it yourself? I was doing it myself. Got it. Correct, correct. So, uh, from now, you know, from then to now, has there been any difference in the budget that you allocated for your weekly webinars, uh, to run the ads?

Ajay Naveen: Correct. So initially in 2020, I was not even doing a weekly webinar. It was only a month. Okay. Okay. So in a month I used to do a, do one webinar that used to take care of the whole month. I was making, uh, really good money and I was serving my clients really well. Ro so it was going really good. 2021. Uh, you know, when this code second wave of Covid came, the draws were not happening right at that point in time.

Ajay Naveen: Uh, at that point in time, uh, it was not making sense to pitch in this Canadian pie. Thank So when you say that I'm going to help you get a Canadian PR as a, as a as parent, when you're looking at that particular ad, it'll not make sense because, you know, boss, the draws itself is not happening. Canada is now closed.

Ajay Naveen: Where are you? Why are you pitching all these things, right? So that's there in your mind. So I changed the narrator, so I told them it is definitely going to open that everybody knows. So when it opens, you'll be in, in advantage. And now I don't promise any PR and stuff. I'm going to give you a chance to apply for a Canadian pr.

Ajay Naveen: Got it. So, so, uh, statistically speaking out of 10, right? People who are aspiring to get a Canadian pr, only one or two, they go ahead and complete. At least they give or try other eight. They drop off for two reasons. One, it's very expensive when they do it, when they're going to do this with an consultancy.

Ajay Naveen: And number two, it's an unsure process, okay? It is not that you pay filex, you're definitely going to get it. If that is the case, people can, people are willing to, you know, take a personal loan to get this. Got it. But it is unsure and it is highly, uh, uh, very expensive, right? So high risk, right? So eight people, they drop off.

Ajay Naveen: So I wanted to cater to those eight people. So I want to make this affordable. I want to give this, try, make it low risk. And I wanted to make this a transparent process. So that's what was happening. That was happening inside the webinar as well, right? So this, we started and. Going good. And yes, to answer your question, the budget in terms of, uh, ads, initially it was for, uh, monthly webinars, so that was a different amount.

Ajay Naveen: Then 2021 when the numbers started coming down, when the narrator, candidate, narrator was done, then I had to put in some more money into this marketing, obviously to reach out to a wider audience. Right. So then 20, 21 plus slightly increased budget. Uh, but from there on, on a, on a weekly basis, the budget anywhere, I mean, it, it keeps the same, keeps remaining the same, you know, it's not very that much.

Ajay Naveen: It's plus all minus, uh, 5,000. That's it. But it, it's more or less the same.

Djagmo: Okay. What is the kind of money that you spend on ads on a weekly basis? For

Ajay Naveen: now, on a, on a weekly basis, I spend anywhere between 12,000. That's the low age. Okay. Sometimes it even goes up to 20 k depending on how the ads perform at that particular week.

Ajay Naveen: Right. Got it. So some weeks it does really well, other weeks it's not. Right. So somewhere around that. Yeah.

Djagmo: Got it. And, uh, these, uh, webinars you conduct on a weekly basis, are they paid webinars or they free webinars? It's

Ajay Naveen: a free webinar for attending the session. People don't have to pay it inside. I give them an opportunity to take part in my program.

Ajay Naveen: Got it. And they'll get an offer to sign up.

Djagmo: Got it. Here's a question, aj. So see free, or you charge 99 rupees or 49 rupees is not a big deal, but you, you know, if I open my Instagram, I see these webinars for, you know, 99 rupees or 49 Rupees. Um, they say that it is used to kind of, uh, determine the intent.

Djagmo: Um, how do you see this? And, uh, do, did you think about, did you come across a point where you had to decide whether you wanted to do this webinar for free or paid? Or was it an easy decision if you did think, how did you arrive at the decision of making it free?

Ajay Naveen: No, I did experiment it. I have done paid webinars as well.

Ajay Naveen: Okay. But paid webinars doesn't really make sense unless, and otherwise you charge a premium. Right. So there's 99 rupees, or 1 99 rupees, 2 99 rupees 4 99, even 4 99. It's not a big money to people. Right now people are earning a lot these days. Right. So 500 they might have paid out of interest, but on that particular day, they have a party in the evening, so they prefer to go to the party, not this one.

Ajay Naveen: So this, I understood. When, uh, I did paid sessions, okay. I, in fact, I tried doing paid sessions, people paid the money. Mm-hmm. Even in the paid session, the participant rate, the conversion rate was only around 50, 60%. Then I was wondering, like, you guys have paid the money, Even after paying the money. If out of a hundred, one 50 people are going to participate, then why should you pay the money?

Ajay Naveen: Let's keep it open, let's find the people at Mm. That way at least two 50 people come to know about the narrative and they might be interested. So that didn't really work. So if at all, if, if, if someone is listening to this, someone is watching this, who's having this, you know, doubts, should I do this 99 thing just to test the intent?

Ajay Naveen: 99 is not going to test the intent. Boss. In order to test the intent, you have to charge a premium, maybe charge them thousand 500 bucks. Right. And if a person is paying thousand 500 bucks, then yes, he's going to attend your session for sure. At least. If not, he's not attending. He's going to come back to you and ask like, Hey, this happened.

Ajay Naveen: Sorry, I couldn't attend. How to go further. Right? So that conversation will be there if you charge them like 99, 1 99, 2 99 stuff, they're there. Fine with it. It's, it's, it's the charge they pay for the parking in Bangalore for, for an art. Right. They're absolutely okay with this. So this is not really gonna test the intent.

Djagmo: Also, probably given your niche, it makes no sense to charge 99 and 4 99 and stuff maybe. No, I mean, people are applying for a Canadian PR man, so I'm sure, obviously Yeah,

Ajay Naveen: they know they're professionals. They know their stuff. They, they for them. See that's why it's, it's, it's, it's if the intent, it's not actually reflecting.

Ajay Naveen: Right. Even I thought so. People who make the payment, their intent is high. No, that's not the case. You know? Right. So people can still take it for granted. So if at all you want to do a paid webinar has to be a high ticket, one premium meaning at least thousand, 500,000, at least there are a thousand thousand five rupe.

Ajay Naveen: Right. Then they will feel the pinch when they don't patent it. Right. Otherwise, it's like nothing for them. Yeah.

Djagmo: Got it. And are you running ads only for the Indian, uh, geography or you're, you know, doing worldwide or what is the

Ajay Naveen: strategy? No, no, no. Right now I'm doing it for Indian geography only.

Djagmo: Got it.

Djagmo: And you say, you know, you have about 120 people participating. What is a conversion rate like

Ajay Naveen: I, the ideal conversion rate in any online webinar, anywhere the, the industry standard is 3%. So if at all, uh, I mean the general webinar thing, you, you have seen all the online go. Yes, yes, yes. A lot of webinars

Djagmo: and a lot of topics.

Djagmo: Yeah.

Ajay Naveen: 3% to five percentage is a good conversion on an average. Even if you Google it, that's what you'll find. Like three to five percentage on a webinar is a very good conversion. Two to three good. Uh, three to five. Very good. And anything above five. So for me, it converts anywhere between, uh, easily between eight to 15 percentage.

Ajay Naveen: That is a conversion. Wow. Okay. There's a eight to 15 percentage conversion. The reason is because of the product, it's because the service, the one that. It's been created, you know, the value, right. And the offer. So I, I, right. I come up with an excellent program and I give it a very affordable price, right?

Ajay Naveen: Right. So people can't resist buying it. So kind of that kind of a narrative.

Djagmo: Got it. Aj I think heres the unique thing, right? Because see, uh, everywhere you look, who's the, I mean, who are the ones who are helping people get a Canadian pr are these consultancy And, uh, you told what is happening with those consultancy.

Djagmo: And, uh, one of the beautiful things about your journey is I think, uh, most of the success stories around coaching right? Happens when the coach has a personal story. Mm-hmm. Uh, strongly connected to the product or the service that he's offering. I think that's what is probably, you know, going very well for you.

Djagmo: And, uh, probably that is why, uh, it is between eight person to 15%. The reason I'm bringing this up is this, right? Uh, for the people who are listening and, um, you know, the aspiring, uh, knowledge entrepreneurs, you know, who are looking to start something, even when, you know, even when I've had conversations in the past, um, there is a strong correlation between knowledge entrepreneurs who are succeeding.

Djagmo: Um, is that when they. They didn't start out with a business model thinking, you know, after a market research, you know, this is what I'm gonna do. They were doing something and somehow they understood, you know, they could also help people achieve the same thing. And they are the ones who have gone on to kind of, you know, see a lot of success.

Djagmo: So that's a pattern that I also am seeing with you. So that's the reason I'm bringing this up. And I maybe this is of value to people who are listening. So that's the reason I'm just reiterating on this fact. Right? Yeah. Um, aj, um, another thing, uh, I wanted to, you know, talk to you about, while we were having this conversation, right?

Djagmo: There was this phase of yours when you were 20 to 25, uh, or, you know, when you were doing the Happy Miles, happy Miles was making a lot of money, but Ajai, the person wasn't making a lot of money. Probably there would've been months when you've made nothing, but you ended up paying money to the employees that you've employed.

Djagmo: And then you said, you know, uh, 2 20 16 when you started classroom training for Happy Miles, um, it was the other way around. Ajai was taking all the money. This is, uh, we are looking at two roles. One is an entrepreneur with a team, and then we are looking at a solo printer. So how do you look at this aj?

Djagmo: Like, you know, I know it is a subjective thing, uh, maybe for your business model, solopreneur is working well, but having been, um, in both these roles, what do you have to say and when is when, uh, when should somebody stick to being a solopreneur and not get into being an entrepreneur with a team?

Ajay Naveen: Alright.

Ajay Naveen: So I would definitely suggest every, you know, as aspiring entrepreneur, unless, and otherwise you require a team, so I can put this as resource, right? If you really require an office, go take it. If you really require a MacBook, then go buy it. If you really require a salesperson, then hire, otherwise you go, you get it done yourself.

Ajay Naveen: Right? Right. So this is, this is seriously one important learning that Happy Miles had given me. Right? Right. And I took it very seriously. Right. And in fact, it is working great right now. Right? So you really should have a team, right? One, when it is this time is affecting your productivity. For example, I'm, I'm doing the c frankly, speaking, uh, I told you, Jack, uh, I, I learned digital marketing, initial phase of it.

Ajay Naveen: The digital marketing was done by myself. Right, right. I did the digital marketing when I started this thing off. I was not a, uh, I know perfectionist in digital marketing. I had rough ideas how to do it. I bought courses. I learned those courses. I experimented it. I was getting in some people, so it was working.

Ajay Naveen: I started doing it right. I I was the one who did it first, right? Right. So I, I got into a team only when I felt that, okay, I should focus more on the narrative. I should focus more on the product and serving my clients so that they're happy. So then I decided, okay, this, I'm gonna outsource because digital marketing was taking my time, right?

Ajay Naveen: If it was not for that, I would've stuck with digital market. I could have, I would've done that myself, right? So maybe you need a team only when your productivity is getting hurt. Until then, don't go for a team. Don't go for a team or don't, don't go for any resource, just for the sake of doing it because others are doing it, or you think it is cool, right?

Ajay Naveen: But if it is really required, it's going to reflect in terms of your productivity as well as on your numbers, right? Right. Then that's the time when you, you have to do it. Or if you are seriously gonna scale up, right? If there is a huge scope for you to scale up and you cannot be there everywhere, right?

Ajay Naveen: Then yes, you need a team, right? So, otherwise, I would definitely stick, try to be as minimalistic as possible. Make a lot of money, right. Uh, spend on, invest in, invest back in your business. Right? And when you are, when you are cutting your other costs, right? Right. So those things, money saved as money earned, right?

Ajay Naveen: Right. So this profit, again, comes back into your pocket. So this is going to help you, you can reinvest it in the business, you can explore, you can experiment, you can, you can spend it, you can go on a holiday, right? Right. But becomes yours when you're doing this, just think whether it's necessary. And we are living in a world where you can hire a person for like 10 days, 15 days, 20 days.

Ajay Naveen: You can hire, uh, executive assistance, virtual assistance, right? You have all these things. So don't get into a full-time commitment for a temporary job. Doesn't really make sense, right? So how I evaluate this, for example, I, I want a trainer, right? Right. I'll see if the demand or the need is there for at least three to four months, right?

Ajay Naveen: So the initial three to four months, I tested myself, right? I trained, and I see, okay, consistently there are people, there is a requirement. Then maybe, yes, it's going, it's taking my time. So now it's the time for me to bring in other person into the picture. So I hire a freelancer, right? So this just the way to go about it is what I personally think, if you want to be successful in the game, right?

Ajay Naveen: So avoid cost cutting, not in terms of deliberate cost cutting, but these sort of unnecessary things. You know, one of those things that are not necessary for your business, right? You should not hesitate to cut it off. Right. So that's, that's my suggestion. And working with the team again. Um, to answer your question, working with the team is a skill and finding the right team is, wow, that's another skill.

Ajay Naveen: I don't know how many entrepreneurs have nailed that. No, I, I zero. I think still people are trying to figure it out. Right? So that's something that I'm not good at. Mm. From the previous experience, something that I learned is I'm not really good at, you know, building this team and, you know, maybe I need more work on that.

Ajay Naveen: So right now I'm not getting into those arena that plays itself. I'm not going, I'm just my strength when, and then, and there, whenever I need, I hire people, get the work done. That's it. That's pretty much it. Otherwise, it's all going cool. So if your process, if your systems and process is in place, then you don't have to worry about all these things, right?

Ajay Naveen: Other additional resources. So have a strong system and process, right. And then you don't worry about all these things.

Djagmo: Got it. And, um, would I be right if I assume your theory about outsourcing work? It is an, is it a given that, that solar is profitable, first of all, is that money being paid out of the profits or even otherwise?

Ajay Naveen: No. See, if you're a solo printer first, you should be in a position to fill in every person's shoe. When you're a solo printer, doesn't mean that you're just doing one job. You're doing multiple things. Right. And the moment, if you, if you are thinking of outsourcing, that naturally means that you're doing good.

Ajay Naveen: That's the reason why you go and outsource. Mm-hmm. When things are not going in your favor, you're, you're, that means it's not working or the business itself is not working out right. So you don't really go and outsource Right. First, because

Djagmo: the reason I'm asking this question is the chicken, uh, and egg, uh, kind of a situation, right?

Djagmo: Uh, see now you, aj you have some sales skills. Fine. You're able to sell, let us say somebody who's an expert in doing Canadian PR itself. There are a lot of situations, but I'm sticking to this because we are talking about it. Let's say somebody is an expert, somebody says, you know, look, you've got an invitation.

Djagmo: A hundred percent, you will get a pr. Uh, there's no, there's no messing up in the documentation, let's say. But, you know, let's say he doesn't have a, um, a skill like you, you know, you are, one of the major strengths of yours is that tour webinar, which you do. You have a certain story, you are able to communicate that well and good for you.

Djagmo: But what about a person who can do it for sure, but who's not able to do the tour webinar like you now Sudi, hire somebody even before he's making a profit Sudi bet on somebody and, you know, hire somebody and do it. Is that a good route to take? Or should that person improve his skills and then do the webinar himself?

Djagmo: You know, this is. This is kind of where, I mean, I'm not trying to ask you the specific question, I'm just giving you an example. So my question would be like, should solo pros first pick up skills? And, you know, if they're outsourcing something, should they know that, uh, process themselves before outsourcing?

Ajay Naveen: So, frankly speaking, to answer your question, Jack, I personally feel solo printers should acquire skills. Right? Right. And it all depends on what skill, right? Right. Is it an essential skill or not? Mm-hmm. If you're a solo printer, selling is an essential skill. Right. I personally believe selling is definitely an essential skill for any solo printer, any entrepreneur for that matter.

Ajay Naveen: Right. He might be a technique, he might be selling something, technical stuff, but he still needs to know how to close it. Right. If he's not good at it, then he's not going to, you know, go, it's not going to work out the way it's supposed to work out. Right. Right, right. So it all depends on the skill. For example, if you had asked me, like, aj, if at all it was coding for you, if at all, uh, I, I have a software built.

Ajay Naveen: Okay. Right? So I have a software built. So why did you not try the software thing all by yourself? Why did you not learn software and why didn't you build your own software then? This is not my, uh, thing, right? This is something I'm good, I'm okay. Outsourcing, right? Hmm. But when it comes to selling in a webinar, the personal brand is really important.

Ajay Naveen: You cannot say that, Hey, this person has done it, so trust this person. I cannot say that this person is good at it. Right? So I cannot, I cannot speak for you. You have to come in. And then people are obviously going to think if this guy is really good at it, why is he not on the screen? Then? Right. Right.

Ajay Naveen: Why, why is he hidden behind the scenes? Right? So obviously when you're coming into this kind of a business, you should be okay to show your face on the screen there. I see a lot of people, and I'm seeing a lot of ads, which says that, you know, you don't even have to show your face. I think people should not focus on that.

Ajay Naveen: This is, this is focusing on weaknesses, right? So rather you should help people to convert their weakness into strength, right? Right. If you're really afraid to show your face on screen, here is how you can actually do that. I'm gonna teach it. That itself is a really good thing, you know? So, uh, coming from an n L P background, I've done my N L P N stuff, right?

Ajay Naveen: So I understand this is really important, right? Right. This is an essential skill. Now we have come to this game, boss, you have come online is a field where you have already come, right? Yes. There are people who, who are really successful without showing the face. But that's just a small group, right? You cannot bet on the small group, right?

Ajay Naveen: So you should be okay in, in, I'm not saying that you, you should definitely come record this, do that, do that. No, but you should be okay in doing that. If your business demands to, at some point in time, you cannot, at that point in time, you cannot come and tell, Hey, no, I'm, I'm a shy person. I'm not good at it.

Ajay Naveen: So I'll hire another person. I'm gonna outsource this thing alone. No, no. Certain things you cannot outsource. Right? Got it. So this is the soul of my business. Webinars are the soul of my business. I cannot outsource this. Yes, there are people who can do it. I, I can teach them do it, I can do it right, but it's not going to resolve the same when I'm doing it.

Ajay Naveen: Right. So, got it. It's really important what things you source and what things you do to yourself. Right. So, got it. Depends on, on the skills.

Djagmo: Yeah, no, it is, you know, uh, interesting. When you started off the answer, you said there are some essential things that you need to do, and there are some non-essential things that can be outsourced.

Djagmo: I mean, is there, uh, you know, what would you consider just, you know, randomly, whatever you can think of with your experience, what would be those essential skills a solar product needs to pick up no matter what? There's no, it's a non-negotiable. And what are some of those non-essential things that a solar product can, uh, outsource?

Ajay Naveen: So, so frankly speaking, communication, it's an essential skill. Okay. If you cannot communicate an idea, right. So you're not going to, you're not going to do it. Right. And then from communication, selling and negotiation, right. These things. Right, right. That's really essential. And the technicalities of the subject.

Ajay Naveen: Right. For example, I'm into Canadian PR space, right? So when questions come on, Canadian pr, I should be in a position to take, I cannot compromise on this particular thing. This is an essential skill. I should be an expert in the now people are calling themselves expert just by reading few books and, you know, trying a few things.

Ajay Naveen: That's not how it actually works. So you have to. Go deep. And even, and you should also, essential skill is saying no to certain things that, again, is an essential At this point in time, you should be okay to saying no to few things, right? Mm-hmm. So these are non-essential skills. Speaking of, I mean, speaking of all these non-essential skills, I would say coding is a non-essential skill.

Ajay Naveen: You don't need to know the codes. There are so many people who are good at it, so you can actually do it. So for example, you want a software, you can do it. Right now, there are a lot of CRMs, right? You can do it. Researching is not a, uh, essential skill because there are a lot of people who are really good at it.

Ajay Naveen: You pay them the money, like you pay them a hundred dollars, $200, $300, they give you a complete research paper. Like you, this is you, you just need to teach. Tell them clearly what is required. And there are people who are really good at all these things, right? And even the other, like on the creatives, right?

Ajay Naveen: So graphic designing, all these things are, these are on not essential skills. You can anyway, uh, you know, hire people for the same. And there are a lot of platforms which can get it done for you. Got it. So these are non-essential skills, but are some things which act as the core. You know, for example, there, there comes a client, right?

Ajay Naveen: And you, you are charging him like, uh, maybe 50,000 bucks and he wants to try and negotiate that with you. How do you tackle the client? Right? Right. When he, when he wants to negotiate, that means he's already interested in your product. So you just have to close it. You don't have to sell him again. You just have to close it.

Ajay Naveen: How are you going do that? Right. Right, right. These kind of things are really essential. Got it. So essential, non-essential. I think this is, this is, I, this is something that I personally feel are some of the skills, you know, essential. Just give you examples on the

Djagmo: essential. Of course, of course. You know, it's gonna vary from business to business, but on the whole, you covered it.

Djagmo: Right. Uh, AJ you also told about, you know, you out, you built a software. Um, so what, I mean, what, from a software perspective, what are the needs for your business?

Ajay Naveen: No, see, what I have built is, right now it's a call, it's an LMS tool. Okay. Uh, basically, which will mimic the computer delivered dials examination.

Ajay Naveen: So that was this comp. Yeah. That is this company, which is into building these type of tools. And, uh, we signed up with that particular company for the tool, and the company completely took care of the whole thing. I just have to pay them the money. Right. So I know what's my, what my requirement is. I tell them my requirement and they get it done.

Ajay Naveen: That's it. Got. So this is, again, non-essential. I just pay them the money and they get this thing done. And whatever money that I spent on the software, it's not directly costing me. Um, anyways, going to put that on my client cause that's gonna be a, a valuation. Right. So it's already been passed on to my clients.

Ajay Naveen: Well, I'm, I'm not having this thing. So this is something that you can al always, you know, uh, play around with. And this software is definitely not an essential skill. Got it. Right. Can anytime get a person got

Djagmo: and for a business like yours, right? What I mean when I say for a business like yours is, this is what I mean.

Djagmo: You're a solo printer, you are offering a certain expertise of yours, and you use the webinar model of, uh, sourcing clients and you know, it's a certain model in itself. Uh, this model can be replicated for a number of other services that experts offer. Now, for people out there, what, from a tools perspective, from a subscriptions perspective, right?

Djagmo: You must be, you know, if you're doing webinar, then you must be using a tool that offers the webinar solution and then, you know, funnels and all these things. What are the essential tools, uh, that are needed, uh, to sustain a business like yours?

Ajay Naveen: Um, see for me, there are a few tools that I actually use. I use Zoom.

Ajay Naveen: Okay. Without that, you know, nothing reasonable. So do you use for your webinars? I use Zoom for my webinars. Okay. Initially I was using a tool called Webinar Jam that was responsible product Webinar Jam. I was using the pro version of it, but later, you know, when I understood Zoom, it's pretty handy. Now it's quite easy to do it and stuff, and now I'm using the webinar version of it.

Ajay Naveen: So, Really good at, uh, this thing, so at, at the work that it does. So I'm happy with Zoom right now. Great. So, and Zoom is something that most people use as well. So webinars and a lot of people had doubts and confusions, but Right. Zoom is something they already have the office meeting on, so they Yes, yes.

Ajay Naveen: Used to Zoom. So I started shifting it to Zoom. Now Zoom is something that I used to have Calendly for appointments, scheduling and stuff. Obviously this Calendly is very important. That's something you use aversion of it, is it? I use aversion of it. Calendly. Okay. All right. And, um, and for me it's WhatsApp groups.

Ajay Naveen: That's it. I don't even have anything else here. Oh, so people come directly from the ad to the WhatsApp group. So in the group, I share the link of the webinar, and then, uh, people, if they want to book an appointment and all they schedule it on Calendly. That's pretty much it. So I've even the tools part, I've kept it minimal in case of some integration has to be done.

Ajay Naveen: I use a APIs, uh, for integrating two things. Right. Um, I also have another subscription called Lead Pages. Okay. Uh, which helps me in building the landing pages. So initially if I, if I want to make a landing page or something, um, WordPress is, uh, one big headache, so Okay. Lead pages, I can get it done instantly.

Ajay Naveen: So it's like, uh, drag and drop kind of a builder. Got it. Right. So that helps me build landing pages quickly. So lead pages. So these are the paid subscriptions that I have at this moment.

Djagmo: And you said, uh, you are, uh, you know, also you, um, have a self-paced course for iss, which for people who come as part, part of your PR consultancy, uh, service that you offer.

Djagmo: So where, where have you hosted that? What are the tools one need for hosting

Ajay Naveen: a self-paced course? Uh, so what happened was like, um, initially I was working with a third party course platform providers. Okay. But since we have builders LMS right now, it has to be integrated. The course has to be integrated with the lms.

Ajay Naveen: So we, I don't have an option other than sticking onto WordPress now. So it's on the WordPress platform right now. It's on my website, it's on the WordPress platform. So people can watch the lessons and then they can take up the test as well. Then watch the lessons, take a test, like build in that way. Uh,

Djagmo: take a test in a sense.

Djagmo: Similar to the aisles thing.

Ajay Naveen: Similar to that. Mimic simulated, yeah. Correct. Got it. Yeah.

Djagmo: So this is the solution that you've built on your own, you're not subscribed to anybody? Nah,

Ajay Naveen: no. No. I built it on

Djagmo: my own. Yeah. Got it. And you must be using a cloud, uh, service to host your server on and stuff like that.

Djagmo: Right? Your website should be hosted somewhere like AWS or Azure or

Ajay Naveen: something. Not sure of where that the hosting part is done. It all, it's all taken care by the team who's over there, so they take care of it. I've just asked them that, you know, it should not be down at any point in time. Right? So this is not the Maple Assistance website for the iss and the tool part.

Ajay Naveen: We have this thing called ISS rockstar. So that's the basic WordPress website. So this, you will not see it on the front end. So we don't promote, uh, ISS Rockstar. So basically this is for the clients of Maple assistance only. So you will not find this C no contents, nothing. This accessor tool for all the people who sign up with maple assistance, I give them an individual access to this particular sector.

Ajay Naveen: So

Djagmo: that's how, and uh, your expenditure, uh, to maintaining these aisles. Rockstar is on a monthly basis, on an annual basis.

Ajay Naveen: On an annual basis, and I think it's around like, uh, 75, 80,000 bucks per year. Okay.

Djagmo: This includes the cloud

Ajay Naveen: cost, everything. Yeah, correct.

Djagmo: The people who maintain it and everything. Yeah.

Djagmo: Yeah, yeah. Got it. Great, great. Aj. So aj, uh, when I was, uh, talking to you, right, there was this other aspect that came in. You know, you said, uh, you can as a solo printer, right? You are outsourcing a lot of things. And, uh, you spoke about very manual things from graphic designing, you know, you can outsource research and all those things.

Djagmo: I'm asking you this question from the perspective of two stakeholders involved here. One is fellows solo printers. Okay? Uh, as a solo printer, how do you go about shortlisting these freelancers? Because it's a tricky thing, right? I mean, you trust somebody. See, for example, you need something in a week's time, you go find a freelancer, you have a week's time, you spend that week.

Djagmo: You don't know if the product, what you're expecting is gonna come out of the freelancer or not. So there is a little bit of a risk involved. How do you tackle that part? And, uh, this is from a point of view of solar printer, right? How do they go and choose the right people? And how do you make sure you're not overspending it?

Djagmo: This is one thing. Second part of the question is from a freelancers perspective, there are a, you know, lot of freelancers who are struggling to find jobs, you know, as a solo planner, as a guy who gives work, what would you like to tell the freelancers, you know, what can they do better to get more work?

Ajay Naveen: Okay. So I mean, the answer to both the question is one and the same. Okay. I basically pick, uh, my people who vibe with me. Okay. So, so the current, the person whom I'm working with right now, the reason why I showed interest on his, uh, Instagram page, I came across his page on Instagram and I really liked his work.

Ajay Naveen: And like I, I, I wanted to approach him because there are a lot of people, there are a lot of people on, on the market right now. You, you, uh, digital marketing space, there are lacks and lacks of people. Right, right, right. Hard to pick the one this guy stood out because he was very quirky. Right? Okay. He used memes to communicate a message.

Ajay Naveen: So he was communicating a message, but at the same time, when you, when you look at the message, you'll have a small smile on your face, right? That aspect really is something that I love, okay? Right. But that's not the one that was the entry point. But the reason why I signed up with this particular person is because, or the reason why I would sign up with any person is because, uh, so this is for all the people who are listening, all the freelancers are listening.

Ajay Naveen: Any, any solopreneur, any entrepreneur is going to give you that gig, not because you're, you're an expert, it is because you listen to them and you understand the problem first. Hmm. Right. So this is what a lot of freelancers, lot of agency owners, this is where they make a mistake, right? Okay. Okay. They don't listen to your business first.

Ajay Naveen: They don't understand you first before understanding. They start selling, they start pitching. Right? Right, right. This is where a lot of people, they go wrong. So I have personally experienced this with, uh, you know, a digital marketing agency. So when you go to a particular digital marketing agency, the first thing they do is they have this call.

Ajay Naveen: And during the call they, they show all these things where like, they have helped fire X 10 x one code, this ads spend this. That's not what I want, boss. What I want is, I want you to first understand me, my business, my pain point, suggest where things are getting leaked, then propose how you're going to fix it.

Ajay Naveen: Then talk about your expert. That is how it actually comes. Mm. Right? Most of the people, they want, they start selling it from the word go. Right? But selling happens only when you listen. Right? Got it. So people listening is a very, very vital skill, especially if you are a freelancer. Okay? So first it can be one R, it can be two Rs, understand the business, right, and then repeat it to the person, right?

Ajay Naveen: And see if you have understood it right. Right, right. Because he might have told you something, you might have understood it different, and you might have, you might be trying to figure out a solution for something else, but check it with the person whether you have understood it. Right. Ask for a time, then come up with the plans, understand where the leak is happening, then come up with the plans, then you share it.

Ajay Naveen: So this is something that, you know, uh, digital marketing agencies or freelancers, this is what is missing with a lot of people. They right from the word go, they get a lead, they try to sell it to the leader. Don't do that. Right, right. So this is very important, and I choose people who are good listeners.

Ajay Naveen: Right? Right. So it's, it's very easy to, you know, get the, uh, flesh from the crowd. Right. So it's like, not many people are good listeners, right? So, but any person who wants to work with me, I, I see if he has that listening skill, because initially, if I'm not careful with this, then it's going to be a real big headache for me.

Ajay Naveen: Yeah. Because this guy's not gonna understand me, what I want, what I expect. Right. He will have something on his own mind and he'll be working around that. He will not understand what's there in my head. Right? Right. So it'll be really hard to work with this particular person. So come understand, listening and understanding is ultimatum when it comes to, you know, getting clients.

Ajay Naveen: So this is for the freelancers. So if you're a freelancer listening, make sure that you listen to your client, understand the need, and then start. Pitching or then start selling, right? Uh, speak to him about how, uh, you can add value to the business, right? And that's when people get impressed. People are not impressed with you showing the results of others, right?

Ajay Naveen: So that's okay. That's just an entry point. But that alone cannot seal the deal, right? So they should feel that, you know, you can solve the problem. They should feel that you can add value. So the moment someone feels it, then they want to work with you.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Raj, this is, um, excellent because I think this can really help people out there because there are a lot of people with skills, but not really able to onboard new clients.

Djagmo: But AJ this is the second part of, uh, that process. I have another question. When you start off, let's say you're working on something, you think, okay, I need somebody to do this. What is the first thing that you do in your search for this person? Do you go to Google? Do you go to social media? Can you, uh, share some insight about this?

Djagmo: Because I think this can also be a very, very insightful, uh, thing if you share.

Ajay Naveen: See, what I do is I, I go to Google, actually. Okay? Okay. And when I figure out few people on the first page or on the second page, then I try, go to the, i I, I go to the socials and I'll see like what these guys have done, right?

Ajay Naveen: And when I'm looking at all these socials, I look for something creative. Mm. I look for uniqueness. Mm. Um, I, I look for something quirky and something funny, right? Mm-hmm. So this is my personality, right? So it should match my personality. And then from there, I shortlist, few have a word with them. And, uh, when you are having this initial conversation, you, you get to understand, you, you get to understand something from the person, right?

Ajay Naveen: Right. Then that's, that's how I generally close. So for me, initially it all starts with Google. Google. Then the socials really help because, uh, to see whether that, uh, whatever I'm seeing on the Google really reflects, uh, their ideology. So socials really help to understand them slightly better, and then when I have a word with them, you get a fair understanding of how it's going to be like with them.

Djagmo: Got it. AJ and, um, aj, uh, are you, you know, just because we are talking here, maybe somebody could benefit. Are you, uh, looking to hire any freelancers or, you know, what are your hiring plans? Like, are there any opportunities for

Ajay Naveen: the people who are listening to this? Absolutely, yes. In terms of, um, uh, trainers aisles and, uh, language test trainers.

Ajay Naveen: If, if you are listening, please do get in touch. Really would love to work with you. See if I, how I can accommodate you here in, uh, maple Assistance one, three. And, um, someone who's really good at designing was really good at, you know, Copywriting. Now that all the AI tools have come, it's all become very robotic so that human touch is missing.

Ajay Naveen: Right? So you can use technology, but again, the human touch has to be there. That's what I personally feel. Yeah. So someone who's really good at copywriting and, and creatives and, you know, all these things, yeah, you can definitely get in touch. I may not be having a full-time job or offer for you, but for sure, uh, this opportunity in terms of working with maple assistance, you'll definitely get

Djagmo: Got it.

Djagmo: And, uh, you pay on an early basis for the trainers?

Ajay Naveen: Uh, for, uh, yeah, for the trainers, yes. Pay, pay them on an hourly basis or based on sessions? Sometimes the session is 90 minutes. Okay. So I pay them, uh, based on sessions as well. What's a

Djagmo: rough figure? Uh, if they want to get an idea,

Ajay Naveen: uh, anywhere between 300 to 500, uh, is what's, uh, the market standard right now.

Ajay Naveen: And, uh, once I actually move to Canada, I'm having plans of, you know, um, doing personal training. So it's, it's gonna be one-on-one training, one-on-one, right. So that, that time it's going to be a different revenue. It's not going to be per hour, it'll be per person. So there'll be a, uh, 60, 40 commission based working.

Ajay Naveen: Right. So, right. Based on the results, based on the expertise, how well they're training, what's the results they're giving. Right. They are, they, they can. Negotiate as well. I really don't mind. So that's another plan. That's, uh, something that's cooking up. So hopefully once I land in Canada, another three, four months time, I'll be starting that as well.

Ajay Naveen: Personal training? Yeah. Got it. Aj,

Djagmo: great. Asj. Uh, as far as, uh, from a business perspective, I think, uh, thank you so much for answering all the questions. Uh, I think I've also asked you a lot of questions, which I, myself, have been curious about over the years and now whatever I thought would contribute to the people that are listening to this.

Djagmo: But one question that I cannot, uh, resist, uh, asking you, uh, anybody, you know, this question, I have anybody who's looking to this is a personal question. So choose to answer in any capacity that you want. You've decided to move to a different country, uh, you know, from your birthplace. And, um, you know, I have a lot of, uh, questions around this.

Djagmo: How can somebody, you know, uh, move? So, just wanna understand, you know, what is your thought process behind it? Why did you choose to, you know, go to, uh, you know, go and settle down in another country? What about your family here? You know, how have you processed all these things and what is the, you know, why are you doing all this?

Ajay Naveen: Right? It was, it was completely just for the sake of trying it or. More experiment it in something. Okay. Never really knew that it's going to. I mean, you start something off and it, once it starts taking off, you then get nervous, right? It's like the same with me here. So, um, initially, uh, I know I never thought this would be this serious, this big, all but the moment, uh, I received the pr, that is when the reality hit.

Ajay Naveen: That's when I started thinking, okay, how am I going to do this? What am I going to do? All those things, um, started creeping in, and frankly speaking, I'm, I'm equally nervous, uh, as I'm excited. Like it's, it's mutual. The feeling is mutual. Like it's 50% excitement and 50%, uh, nervousness because it's completely a new country.

Ajay Naveen: And, you know, um, not sure what I'm going to do, how it's, how to set. I mean, setting up a business here in India where you know your things, right, it, that itself is difficult. But now I have to go reestablish the whole thing there in Canada. So it's gonna be a Himalaya task for me, right? And, uh, and, and going along with my family as well.

Ajay Naveen: Two kids, wife, right? So all these things are definitely there, but I really want to give this thing a try. So the reason why, if you ask me, aj, uh, if you ask me, uh, Chuck, aj, why are you moving to Canada? Then my thing would be it is to explore. It is simply to explore because it is not that I'm not doing here.

Ajay Naveen: Well, here in India, frankly speaking here in India, I'm doing exceptionally well. I will be living a king's life if I'm sticking on to India. But somewhere I feel that, you know, God is calling me to go to Canada. It's like that. I'm a, I'm a, uh, believer. I, I, I'm a firm believer in God, and I see a purpose in me going to Canada.

Ajay Naveen: I can, I can feel that intuitively I can, I can feel that with me. And, uh, I personally think that I'm going to add a lot of value to people who are over there, and it's going to be a big platform for me, and I really don't want to miss that particular platform, right? It's a platform that I've got right now, a global platform, which I really want to explore and see how it goes from there, right?

Ajay Naveen: So, uh, right from 20 13, 20 14 onwards, I've got some multiple business ideas. I've, I've got, always had those ideas and I've, I've, I've been seeing someone else doing it, and it's, it's reaching some level in the market, right? So, uh, I, I have this, you know, uh, eye for these ideas right now. I, I'm personally thinking of, you know, once I land there in Canada this time, frankly speaking, give this a try.

Ajay Naveen: Give the idea a try. So, and, uh, I happen to hear a lot of good things about Canada in terms of starter starting up and, you know, funding and stuff, right? So I maybe if government is also that supportive, why not? We experiment something, right? So try, try, build, build a big company, right? Provide jobs for people.

Ajay Naveen: Maybe if that's happening, great, otherwise you still learn something, you can always come back, right? So, uh, you can always come back. Uh, it's, it's not that, you know, I'm, I'm done with India for good notes, never the case. My parents are still here. But one more advantage that I have is my family in terms of my own sister, my wife's own brother, they're there.

Ajay Naveen: So, again, anyway, so my parents are going to shuttle between India and Canada, so I'm not really going to miss them fully because at least every one year or two years once can be here. And since my business is also established here in India, that'll be a lot of scope for me to travel from Canada to India for doing this, uh, seminars, right?

Ajay Naveen: So, uh, that is a very good opportunity. Maybe, uh, do seminars in five big cities, Delhi, Bombay, you, you go to Amba, you go to Bangalore, come there and do a session, right, for all the aspirants. So it's, it's going to be of a different value because someone from Canada is coming and giving you a brief, right?

Ajay Naveen: So people are obviously going to come and attend and that way it's going to help the business part as well. So, um, right now I really don't have an answer Jack, but maybe six months from now, we'll again, once again, connect so I can give you Yeah. Better clarity on how this thing is going to be. But still coping?

Djagmo: No, no. I didn't, uh, expect clarity at all, aj. I mean, just your mindset, uh, because you know, from a very, uh, curious, uh, angle, that's about it. You know, and also you, you, you told the, um, you know, the logical part of all these things, right? I mean, you wanted to do a business. The opportunities are good there.

Djagmo: Probably it's got a better ecosystem than India. And you're, you know, at the, at the bottom of all these things you said, you know, it's more about exploring and you wanna probably challenge yourself and, you know, see probably, you know, get out of your zone. Right? That's exactly right. Uh, how, uh, how has your pa uh, how has your family, your, uh, mom, dad, how have they dealt with it?

Djagmo: You know, what about your wife's spare in?

Ajay Naveen: So, um, the thing is that, you know, uh, my wife is someone like, uh, who never wants to come out of the city. She's still not okay. Moving to Canada. We are just 36 days away from the flight, and she's still not okay. Moving to Canada, given a chance. She'll, she'll stay back here in India.

Ajay Naveen: Uh, but, but the thing is that, you know, um, that's what, uh, we as a family feel that that is a purpose for us to move as a family, right? And, uh, that is this intuitive thing. We, we sit, we pray, we, we, we, you know, we believe, and there is an intuition that says that, yes, you have to be there. Otherwise it, it should not have happened, right?

Ajay Naveen: So easily Canada, okay, should not have happened to me, right? So mm-hmm. It's more like I didn't choose Canada. It was like Canada choosing me, you know? Yeah. So yes, it's going to, this is one aspect of it. Second aspect of it, if you talk from a personal point of view, I am entering a zone, which is very dangerous.

Ajay Naveen: That is, I'm entering a deep comfort zone. I have my parents here. My, my children are put in a very good school. And, uh, I have everything that I want. I can, I can buy a house, maybe a couple of houses here, and I can settle down for good. Maybe if I continue doing this in one or two years, my life is going to be settled for good.

Ajay Naveen: Maybe for another two generations I can save money. But that's a very dangerous zone. Then you start falling down, right? Uh, more comfort. You get, you're not growing. So I felt that, okay, I should challenge myself, right? 34 years I have been here in this place. So I said, enough, right? So let's, let's try to go out, see how that life is.

Ajay Naveen: My sister, she has at least been to Chennai. She was there for work. She, uh, my wife, she has, uh, been on a hostel. I've never come out of my house. It's not even three, four days I've been there without seeing my parents. This is gonna be the first long break actually. It's really gonna be challenging. It's gonna be challenging for my parents as well, because my kids grew up here.

Ajay Naveen: I, I stay with my parents. My kids all grew up here and, uh, whether they miss me or not, they're definitely gonna miss my kids for sure. And that's, that's there. And the same applies with my wife's parents as well with my in-laws as well. They're very close to my wife. They're very close to, uh, my kids. And, uh, it's close knit family.

Ajay Naveen: And obviously this, this distance is definitely going to pinch them for sure. But, uh, hoping that, you know, since the whole family is there now, now when I go there, it's like my side of the family and my wife's side of the family, they're there in Canada. So obviously the parents can come there anytime and, uh, spend some quality time with us.

Ajay Naveen: So hopefully, yeah.

Djagmo: It's very interesting that you spoke about, you know, comfort zone can get dangerous and, um, uh, this is, uh, this is one thing I think you must have heard, uh, easy times create tough man and tough people and tough times create, um, sorry. Easy times. Create tough, uh, people and then, you know, tough times, uh, create, uh, great people and then again, great people create good times and then good times create great people character.

Djagmo: Correct. And probably, you know, that's what I remembered when you said, you know, comfort zone. Too much of

Ajay Naveen: comfort zone is too much of comfort can actually lead you to complacency. And then that's going to take you nowhere then you are. Yeah. Growth is stunt and if you want to be an entrepreneur, if you want to establish something, then this is not the right place.

Ajay Naveen: Right. And right. I'm, I'm, I'm passionate. You know, sometimes when the more you get now you get settled, right? So, yes, yes. I don't want to settle. Right. Both the things are there in me, one part of me says, Hey, you're doing really good. Settle down. Other part says, no, no, I know it's dangerous. So this is not the reason why I came to business.

Ajay Naveen: I came to business for something else. Right, right. So this is something I could have even achieved if I was working somewhere. I become the vice president, I make good money, I travel the world. So this is, this is something else. Right. So I, I want to, I wanna see the depth of it. So it's a challenge that I'm taking of myself.

Ajay Naveen: Yeah. Sorry. And which

Djagmo: part, uh, are you

Ajay Naveen: going to go to? Um, I'll be landing in Toronto, Ontario. Toronto. Toronto, Ontario. Okay. And, uh, okay. That's where your family, that's where my family lives. That's exactly why I'm landing here. Otherwise, I, my, my province is totally different. I want to live in another province, which is less happening and, you know, um, like that, which is that, um, I want to go to Calgary.

Ajay Naveen: Uh, it's an Albert Alberta, Calgary, but it's more northern. Part of, it's very cold. I mean, obviously Canada is harsh in terms of, uh, climate for sure, but it's, the weather is really harsh, but still, you know, that's, uh, less happening and you know, it's more scenic. I, I, I want to be there, so hopefully I'm gonna experiment.

Ajay Naveen: I'm gonna see how this thing goes and I can move, uh, anytime I want inside Canada. So that's definitely not gonna be a problem. So if something that in cards, maybe in another two, three years, I'll come. Got

Djagmo: Itk aj? Uh, it was a pleasure talking to you. Um, very, very interesting, uh, story of yours and I wish you all the very best.

Djagmo: Good luck on your journey. And, uh, we will probably, you know, I'll get in touch with you after some months and see, you know, where you are. And I'd love to, uh, probably have another casual podcast about your new life there. And, you know, you could probably talk about that. Of

Ajay Naveen: course, of course. Definitely.

Ajay Naveen: Jack, thank you so much for this opportunity. You know, if, if the message is, uh, at least helping one or two Yeah, yeah. This is worth it. Totally worth it, right? So that's the ultimate objective. That's the ultimate, uh, reason why we are doing what we are doing. So if this is really help a budding entrepreneur or any entrepreneur for that matter, then yeah.

Ajay Naveen: Great. We have, uh, done a good job then. Yeah. And for sure we, let's connect once again, so be in touch. Uh, I'll also be in touch with you. Sure. And once I'm there at Canada, let's get connected and possibly we'll catch up once again. For sure. Thank you so much for having me on the show Check.

Djagmo: It's been a pleasure, Raj.

Djagmo: Thank you. This podcast is brought to you by Edison OS a no-code EdTech platform to operate an online education business. Knowledge. Entrepreneurs can use Edison OS to sell online courses from their own websites, manage online masterclass, launch mobile learning apps, sell online practice tests for competitive exams, run online learning communities, digitizing their offline tutoring business, use it as a learning management system, and a lot more cases in the domain of knowledge commerce.

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