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25th Feb 2023
1hr 56mins

Episode 14 | Naveen J | The CMA Guy

Naveen is a qualified CMA USA. He trains students to approach this CMA USA Exam in a more logical mindset by providing real-life case studies.

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Djagmo: Welcome to the Knowledge Entrepreneurs Show, where we celebrate the innovators driving change in the education industry at Edison Os. We've worked with over 500 knowledge entrepreneurs to turn their ideas into profitable businesses. In this episode of the Knowledge Entrepreneur Show, we have Naveen Jay, also known as a CMA guy.

Djagmo: Navine is a full-time educator for Cmma, U S A C A A C C A, and he's also a part-time consultant. Navine has created a 60 days flagship program for cma, s a, where he trains students strategically with an intuitive approach to complete an exam by just prepping for only 60 days. Navine uh, thank you so much for accepting my invite and, um, you know, uh, joining me to be a part of this show.

Djagmo: Um, it's a pleasure having you here. Uh, so. Navine, uh, before we get started, uh, you know, just for the sake of our listeners as well as, you know, for the both of us so that we can keep this podcast aligned, uh, with the purpose of this podcast, I'll just walk you through what this podcast is about and, uh, what, uh, is a major reason why we, you know, want to do this podcast.

Djagmo: So, as you see, you know the name such as it's the Knowledge Entrepreneur Show. So it is a show that is dedicated to entrepreneurs who are in the knowledge domain, right? Who are in the education space. Um, it could be people who started off as trainers and teachers, and then, you know, then they went on to start their own business.

Djagmo: Uh, it could be solo entrepreneurship or, you know, with a team as well. Um, but, you know, uh, it includes people you know, who source their own clients and then, you know, who run everything that is related to that business, including training. And, um, we will definitely talk about, uh, you know, what your business is about and what you offer and stuff like that.

Djagmo: But this show, uh, you know, Primarily is to understand the business side of your, uh, startup or, you know, whatever that is you do. Uh, because there's so much more than the, your core skill is definitely training, but then surrounding that there's so much of business that happens and why are we doing this?

Djagmo: This is, you know, there is so much of information out there in the internet which people can access, especially the aspiring knowledge entrepreneurs. But then, you know, there's nothing like hearing from people who are in there doing that particular thing. And, you know, a conversation with guys, like you can really bring out some value for people out there who, who are working as teachers or trainers with some other academy, but you know, who have a dream of having their own academy at some point.

Djagmo: Now, it's not only gonna help them, uh, you know, take the right steps in the direction of setting up, but it could also save somebody's time, you know, in helping them realize that this is probably not for them. You know, uh, because entrepreneurship is not for everybody, right? Um, they could probably save a lot of time and effort.

Djagmo: So that is the reason why we are doing this, uh, show. And once again, thank you so much, uh, for agreeing, uh, to be a part of this. I'll start off with my first question, Naveen. My first question is always, you know, uh, pretty open-ended, a very light question, and it's more to do with the Naveen, the person to understand your personal journey so that, you know, there's a connection that builds with, uh, the audience that are listening to.

Djagmo: And then whatever you say, you know, has got so much more context to it. So Naveen, um, walk us through, you know, your journey until your, your, your, your life growing up as a child and, you know, uh, what are the things that happened and, you know, how did you eventually, uh, start the CMA guy?

Naveen J: Yeah. Uh, so basically I never wanted to be a teacher.

Naveen J: That is something which I'm very clear, uh, but somewhere, okay. Uh, all my life I always dreamt of becoming an actor. Uh, that is something like, which was my dream. It's like, uh, I'm coming from a South Indian family and watching movies like, you know, Ash, the, so definitely like, uh, that's the love. But, uh, somewhere after my 12th where I did my, you know, science and all, and then I thought I should do something better, like from the career perspective.

Naveen J: And, uh, my family was very against with respect to all these things. Like, you know, acting, getting into media, industry, all these things. So that is when I thought, so I started my career, never,

Naveen J: that's an neverending story. So somewhere at that point I started with year, uh, I was just wishing that I will not pass the exams so that like,

Naveen J: And at that point, uh, it was the last resort. Like, okay, last one attempt I'll give, and I'm very confident that it'll not happen, so that my parents will not stress me much on this. And, uh, they'll just, uh, but then what happened is wrote the exam and immediately they almost including my, uh, saying that, okay, exam will not be passed.

Naveen J: Then he gives some contacts with respect to the go and contact these people so you can get into acting and all. And I started acting for two months, three months. Okay. And the result came and unfortunately passed. So I was done with my, you know,

Djagmo: probably the first person who I'm hearing, saying, unfortunately they passed Must.

Djagmo: Yes.

Naveen J: Yeah. Yeah. That's the reason. It's like, it was did, but it happened. I wanted all, can't my. So that was the same. And I was only good with one thing with respect to writing means like, uh, uh, what I believe is whatever you explain, you should be able to explain it to six years old. Simple tool. So that is something which I was able to do, uh, for a very long, right.

Naveen J: So I started with my friends like, so like, uh, this concept is very easy. You learn it like this, completed in four hours. And like that one day I got a opportunity saying that, okay, do you want to teach tax? So I was not ready for it to be very honest, but I was like, sir, okay, like life is giving me a chance.

Naveen J: Let me take it up. And somewhere after four to five days, I experienced that. Uh, feel means like in acting, there's a rule. If you, if you know, uh, you need to get into the part of the acting like a character. Okay? Like, uh, if you have seen last 30 minutes, it's not. It's the character, she, yes, yes, yes. Correct.

Naveen J: No. So it'll be that intense. Yes, yes. So that is something like, which I experienced with my class means like, uh, I was not navine. Right. I was a teacher who is explaining. So I enjoyed that process. Like, okay, yes, I can't get into acting. It's a tough job as of now, but at least in teaching I can do that.

Naveen J: Right. So that's how I started. And uh, I did teach for, uh, some economies for a while, but later on I understood, ok, ok. Uh, this will not work for a very long time. Uh, cause I can always be replaceable. That points will be there. Correct? Right. Correct. Yes. So somewhere like, okay, you need to have your own, like, why people should come to you.

Naveen J: Okay. The reasons. And also like, have your own brand so that nobody will come in, you know, just grab it from you. Something like that. So that's the whole point, like when I started my own and prior to that it was a startup. Basically. We were working on a product called. But, uh, over the period of time, after four to five months, we did figure out that the market is still not ready for this particular product.

Naveen J: Okay. So that's when, uh, like, uh, we were looking for something more like a healthy for the purpose of education, like where we help students from starting till the end with everything means through the use of the application. So, so that was the plan and, uh, as we understood this will not work out, uh, for some reasons.

Naveen J: And, uh, we just need to go ahead and focus on something like, you know, the quality of the education. So I'm good at it, let me focus and do it. Yeah. That's how the came into the picture.

Djagmo: Interesting, because I was gonna ask you about ipro. Mm-hmm. Um, so you said that uh, for five months you tried ipro and then you've shed it for now.

Djagmo: Is it basically Oh. Oh, but I is still there.

Naveen J: Every is still there means, uh, maybe after three years or four years even, there's a chance. It's like the product is good, uh, when you ask for a review and all, like, uh, we got a great reviews. Like students are happy, teachers are happy with that kind of a product.

Naveen J: But the only problem is like nobody will be ready to pay for it. And, uh, most importantly, somewhere we need to figure out that as well. Right. Okay. Why will people pay? Yeah.

Djagmo: Yes, yes, yes. So when you say that product was similar to Healthify me, like Healthify me is basically as far as, from my understanding, it helps people lose weight.

Djagmo: Correct? Uh,

Naveen J: it

Djagmo: helping,

Naveen J: uh, it helps people have a,

Djagmo: yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, so your app was, um, helping students clear the ca exam to become a ca Yeah.

Naveen J: Uh, not for ca, but all the international professional exams. Like in India we have Cs, CS, a Cmma. Uh, other than these three courses, like outside India, there are many other professional courses which Indians do.

Naveen J: Like B, CMA usa, cpa, usa, A, C C, cpa, Canada, C P, Australia, C, ffa, R. Okay. So like these courses are something, uh, which comes at a huge cost as well as, uh, you know, they test your knowledge. Okay. Okay. Rather than just testing if you have studied or not. Okay. So somewhere like, uh, that matter. Okay.

Djagmo: Yeah. Okay, got it.

Djagmo: Navine. Navine. Um, so you said you uh, you know, you kind of, uh, dropped the product idea. Maybe you said three, four years down the line that may come back and then, you know, for now you kinda changed. So what have you, uh, pivoted it to?

Naveen J: Uh, we have pivoted it to more into education means like, uh, rather than creating a product, let's build a better service.

Naveen J: To make more simple. Yeah. See, like, uh, I can give you the best product to use. Okay. Like I can give you the best, uh, learning app. But more than that, first of all, you should have a better learning experience means like the quality of the teachers. Okay. The knowledge. So like, uh, in our whole school and all, like if we see, uh, we have never thought to ask questions.

Naveen J: We have been asked just to study, write the exam clear and score the mark. So that's the whole Right. But like somewhere we wanted to change it, like what changes ins which do in.

Djagmo: Right. Got it. So, um, Navine, uh, I mean it's interesting right? Because um, I have, when I speak to, uh, people, uh, you know, who are in the education domain and you know, who've started teaching, uh, It starts off from people being a teacher for a long time, or at least if, if, if not the time, you know, the depth in which they would've gone down.

Djagmo: And they have taught students, this is the core thing that will really help them come up with other ideas because they've been in that for so long. They know the problems and that is what leads them to build something or create another business, but surrounding, but they, they'll be trying to solve some problem there.

Djagmo: Yeah. There are two reasons for this, right? One is obviously teaching is not scalable. You can only teach to so many, you know, teach only so many students at one point in time. No matter how much a person can teach, how much you make boundaries, it cannot, uh, you know, scale up just like a way, uh, an app would do, right?

Djagmo: Yeah. So, uh, one is you cannot scale up and, um, another is, you know, uh, the kind of freedom that you'll get. You know, once you have the, the product with you, you're moving from the service to a product thing. Because a lot of people have this, uh, dream. A lot of them start off with the flow as a service and then they realize that there's so much of time and effort that goes in and then there's only so much money that you can make.

Djagmo: And then that's how they move to product. Right. There is a transition and, um, that is exactly, you know what I saw the moment you said, you know, you started off teaching and then you build a product, but then you came back to teaching now, right? You've taken that now, now, now my question is this right?

Djagmo: Didn't you try pivoting in the product itself? Why did you have to come back to service? Or how difficult is it? Or are you just being patient? You know what, let me just do the service thing for another three, four years and then lemme get back into product.

Naveen J: Uh, see, it's not about like, uh, we, creating a product or service means like, uh, once we got into the market, we did a lot of research means, uh, right.

Naveen J: The people who pursue these professional process are very less. As compared to a ca or like if you think about I T G, like that's a huge number. Okay. But when we think about these courses, right? Professionally, cause only after your degree you'll start it. Okay. After this 21, 22 or you

Djagmo: have some numbers, Navine.

Djagmo: Uh, do you have some rough numbers that will compare? What are the number of people that aspire for i j versus what are the people of, you know, what are

Naveen J: I, I don't have a number as such. Ok. But all average for let's say just, okay. There are somewhere around like people who take the exam.


Djagmo: per, that's it.

Djagmo: That's it. From the whole of India? Yes. Oh my

Naveen J: God. I'll just ask you like, uh, when was the first time you heard about CPA usa?

Djagmo: Okay. Uh, see for me, right, I might be a little outlier because I used to, uh, talk to somebody who used to run this, uh, company called His Praxis. Now he was teaching in Christ Union University.

Djagmo: His name was Matthew. Because of him, I got know this, uh, cma, U S A and CPA U usa. There are students, uh, who are doing their degree in Christ, but who are aspiring to go do, uh, their CMA or cpa. I'm sorry. Can you help me with, uh, the difference between CMA and cpa?

Naveen J: Uh, see, like in India we have cs. Yes. Cma,

Djagmo: right?

Djagmo: Ca, CS and c

Naveen J: cma, like ca, chartered account, or you know, books of accounts, maintenance, auditing, all these things in the same way. CS is more to company. Okay? Okay. Uh, he looks after the inside of the company. What is the expansion of CS Company Security.

Djagmo: Okay.

Naveen J: Oh, okay. Fine. Okay. And, uh, whenever you go to any of the manufacturing sector industries, like, you know, uh, Tata or like Mahindra, they come something called a cma.

Naveen J: That is cost management account. It's all about cost and finance. Okay. Okay. So, uh, in the same way in USA also, like we have something called a cma, ccp or even C means. What they have done is they have more, made it more clear and simplified means like cma, he's just a management of content and he needs to take care only of the company.

Naveen J: Like if you wanna run a company, you may need a cma. If you want to be a CFO of a company, you need a cma. Okay. Okay. Whereas, like, uh, if you're pursuing c p, then it's more related to a public account. It's as they suggest it's certified public account. It's equal to see got means like as a company, we run, but someone should sign the document.

Naveen J: Someone should check if whatever we are doing is correct or not. That will be taken care by a CPA in. Got it. So like they have made it more clear. Yeah.

Djagmo: Na mean, I have another question now. What is this? See, uh, Ms I understand master of science, you know, master science or, or master of science. I'm sorry if the there is one is wrong and one is great, but when you go do that, you know, you can come back to India and use your expertise and you can work.

Djagmo: I agree. But a, a thing like taxing and all those things, I'm sure every country has its own rules and the courses are also in accordance with the rules. Uh, that uh, each country rules and regulation and each, you know, each country have. Right. For example, if you do your CA in India, then you can only practice CA in India.

Djagmo: If you're gonna go do your CMA or CPA in usa. What is the career path for the students? Like what are their aspirations like? Yeah.

Naveen J: Uh, see, uh, India is one such country which can provide services to all over the world as of today. And also we are also moving into manufacturing as. Means like data consultancy services or invoices.

Naveen J: These companies provide services to the, okay. You know, US or uk, other countries. Right. So in the same way, accounts based, no, I'm speaking about the tech based, like TCS or infos, if you consider like Right,

Djagmo: right.

Naveen J: So like we have such a new human resources, we can provide these services. Okay. So that's the whole reason, like why before coming to India, like, uh, consulting companies, according auditing companies.

Naveen J: So what happens? Okay. Like there is kpmg, which works in India. So, okay. KPMG will not just have Indian clients, they will have US client or UK client, so to provide services, right? Rather than hiring someone from usa, they can hire someone from India. So that is how the job opportunities are improving, I would say.

Djagmo: Oh, okay. So you mean to say that Indian students go to the us They do one of these courses. Same. A or cpa, then they come back to India, work for these big fours, and their clients will be people from the us Is it companies from the us?

Naveen J: Uh, I'll make it more simple for you. Like, uh, by sitting in India only you can pursue all these courses.

Naveen J: You can complete these courses and you can work in India and services to these based companies. It's like, uh, there's no got it. Proper thing, like we should go to US CCP not required. India only we can do it.

Djagmo: Oh, but the exams will be, um, you know, in India certified by the US universities. Yes. Yes. In India again.

Naveen J: Oh, like, it'll be certified by the.

Djagmo: Yeah, please, please go on. Yeah,

Naveen J: so basically what happens is, like in India, the exams will happen. Everything will be computer based. Okay? So whatever the evaluation, everything will be done again, directly from the us. Like in making it more simple, I see AI right in India, uh, which looks after everything in the same way.

Naveen J: In USA we have something called as IMA and ai, c P. So ICP is force, you know, certified public content. And this one, uh, Ima is the Nstitute Force CMA usa. Yeah,

Djagmo: right. Got it, got it. So, uh, the students who pursue, uh, the s a and the U S C P A, uh, when they have got that certificate right, They will not be able to, uh, work with the Indian companies.

Naveen J: They'll be able to work with the Indian companies, provided that not like a small CFOs like obviously, like whatever we learn with respect to cpa, it'll, it'll be related to USA getting the problem. So whatever you study with respect to usa, you can work with Indian companies who are providing services to the other countries.

Naveen J: That's what your

Djagmo: end clients will be from us. Only your end clients cannot be the Indian

Naveen J: people. It doesn't make sense. Like even if you go for that, it doesn't make sense. Yeah, it's like if you learn, no, the reason I'm

Djagmo: asking you this question is this, no. The uh, uh, reason I'm asking you this question is this.

Djagmo: Because as a guy, right, when I'm thinking of this, there is a small fear. See, you are an Indian sitting in India. At the end of the day, your guaranteed thing is your Indian population, your Indian companies. Now, uh, you know, now this is, don't you think this is indirectly affecting the population of the US uh, in terms of jobs and all those things?

Djagmo: Aren't Indians sitting in India competing with the people of us for their jobs? So, and you see these days, there are so many talks going on about how the US government is also, you know, the US public are also being aware of all these things and you know, they're probably protesting and, you know, so from that aspect, is it not a risky thing for Indians to do this?

Naveen J: Uh, I would say no. But yes, like, uh, what, what you said, like, for that, I would like to say one point. See, uh, even like you have some work experience, right? Like how the corporate culture works and all. So everything is robotic. So if you're also going to be someone like that in the company, uh, there's not going to be a lot of future for you in the future.

Naveen J: Means like, uh, after five years down the line, you'll be easily replaceable, right? Getting the part means like, uh, you know, US companies saying, okay, this is what you should do and you're doing it. And maybe like three years down the line, you may, you may be replaced very easily, but if you have the knowledge, like if you can contribute something to the company, that is when the difference will start happening.

Naveen J: Means like, uh, it'll not be so easy for the US based companies to remove you as well. It's like they need people. Okay. And like, uh, what I have observed is like, uh, as Indians, like we have a lot of patience to get the work done means like we can sit back and do the work. Like, uh, if you observe, we don't care about work-life balance somewhere eight hours, 10 hours, 12 hours.

Naveen J: We just get the job done, right? No. So like at this point, what happens? We are the right set of people, but like if you think any other country like US or uk, they care about this work-life balance. After five o'clock they pick the company's calls. So all these things will be there. Right? So in that case, like definitely it's a risky factor and somewhere like, uh, there's a chance that we have no other option that we need to work for them, that chances are gonna be there.

Naveen J: Okay. Right. But at that time, like if you're improvising, like for example, like, uh, uh, we got something like, you know, make in India we started building products for the other world. Correct. So at that time, it does make a lot of sense. It's like, uh, let's say there's a boat, a small startup company right, with respect to airport CFOs and Yes.

Naveen J: Yes, yes. So if that company is shifting to US or uk, so at that point definitely, like they will also hire Indian CMA CPAs, right? To work in US a. Right. So it would be a improvisation because like we are going to be the global leader in the next five to 10 years. That chances are pretty high.

Djagmo: Great. Okay.

Djagmo: And, uh, the number you, uh, you, uh, mentioned, right, 8,000 to 10,000 people, uh, students from India are the ones who pursue. This is specifically for the U S C M A? The S C P. Correct. You just, I'm speaking about US. C M A Oh, the US cma. Okay. The US CMA is just 8,002, uh, 10,000. Okay, fine. And, uh, your, your startup or, you know, whatever you're doing, the CMA guy, you are only focusing for the people who are, uh, doing the cm.

Djagmo: Yes.

Naveen J: Right now we only focuses for CMAs. Like, uh, let's build the best out it, like you said, right? You should be able to scale it. Uh, like how can we improv, how can we provide something better as to first build once going focus on as well?

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Navine. Navine, uh, you know, I've come across, um, one person, you know, who's doing, uh, you know, who's teaching, um, I think the U S C M A, but not privately, but through a university.

Djagmo: Right. Hmm. Now, what is your model? Do you, are you tied up with an academia and you, you're, you know, you're teaching a bunch of them? Or are you having your private students?

Naveen J: Uh, I have my own private students. It's like, uh, it's like a private academy, like the, is a brand for that. And through those, like, uh, will be just focusing on the classes properly means like who server wants to join, they will directly join to us and then we'll teach them and we'll help them in passing their exams.

Naveen J: Even students from place are also joining us, so that's how it works.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Okay. And, uh, you said the ipro ledge, the product that you were mm-hmm. Planning on, which was similar to Healthify Me, that was started in the middle of your CMH guy, uh, journey. No, no, no,

Naveen J: no. That was the whole first thing, like, which we started, uh, means like, uh, for the first time when we thought, okay, we should do something really good.

Naveen J: Mm-hmm. Uh, we thought, like, see, uh, anyways, like there are many teachers mm-hmm. Okay. Who work as a freelancers and all. And also like there are many students who won't get the right kinda education. Right. So let's mix both of them and will something so good that they get whatever they're looking for in one simple word.

Naveen J: Okay. Okay. Okay. Means, uh, rather than like, you know, me being a teacher mm-hmm. Because as you said, you can't scale it up for a very long period time. Like you can teach to the extent like where you have a passion, but, and that you can teach. As simple as that. So at that point, like if you don't, like I have these people, like, you know, all the passionate teachers, if they can come and teach one particular course, like whatever they're expert in, so let them teach.

Naveen J: So that's going be very good for them. Cause they get a platform to teach and like students also. So that was the mindset and over and above that, like, we'll build a product according to that means like, uh, what student is doing, how is it helping them? Where are they standing? So it is everything. So that's what we thought.

Naveen J: But then later on, I underst slogan means like, students are ready for it, like with respect to the product, but the problem is, first of all, we need to fix the education. Like without even you fixing the education. If you bring the product, what's the point of this product? Okay. It's like you teach and then you have something that supports means product is more like a byproduct rather than a primary product.

Naveen J: Right. Okay. So that's why we thought, okay, uh, let's first on the course that is service. And if we are able to teach the best for them, then this product will help them to achieve their exams. Without that, also they can pass, but without a good learning. If they have a app, there is no point of it. I hope to get the.

Djagmo: Yeah, yeah. No, got it, got it. The app doesn't make sense. There was a little bit of a lag actually, probably cause of the network issue. So let me, uh, reiterate what I understood. Just, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, the point that you, uh, made was this right? Uh, you said, um, the teaching, the service is the first important thing and as a value add or as a supplement to the teaching is what your app was gonna solve, some problems surrounding it.

Djagmo: The product was always gonna be a supplement. It was not gonna replace the teaching at all, which is when I realized that healthify me, I've used, uh, you know, I like the app mainly to check what food is, how many calories and stuff like that. I haven't really, you know, uh, used it beyond that. And um, uh, you know, and then I realized that, you know, the app offers a certain plan, but.

Djagmo: Its value add is offering some personalized, uh, coaching where, you know, they will come and, you know, they will probably help you with designing, but yours is a little in the opposite direction. You first offer coaching where there is a human intervention and on top of it comes your app as a product, which might also have, again, personalized coaching and stuff like that.

Djagmo: Yeah. Like one on one, um, navine, uh, like one-on-one and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which will be personalized. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Uh, Navine, uh, you started the CMA guy, uh, when, uh, in Jan. 2021, is it?

Djagmo: Yeah. And this, uh, product idea was, you know, uh, tried even before that, uh, for about five months.

Naveen J: Yes. So we are working on it. Like we did our research and then we thought, okay, uh, let's pause it for a while, and later on, like, we'll focus and continue further.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Nav. Yeah. Navine. Uh, I'm definitely gonna come back to this and, you know, uh, deep dive into all these things, but now, you know, let me take a step back.

Djagmo: You know, I, you know, I was, uh, referring to your LinkedIn profile and I just gathered some information and I, you know, I have some, uh, questions to ask you, mainly because, you know, our target audience of this podcast is mostly gonna be, uh, knowledge entrepreneurs or, you know, cocreators, something to do around that.

Djagmo: This is when I saw, uh, you had this, uh, title called a Stop 50 Creator in Graphe. Yeah. Uh, you know, which was very interesting and I'm sure a lot of people aspire for something like that. Can you, you know, walk us through that entire journey and, you know, uh, how you got to being, uh, you know, the top 50 creator in graph, because Graphe is a huge marketplace.

Djagmo: A lot of people from India have their courses and top 50 is quite a thing. Uh, yeah. So can you, uh, walk us through that journey?

Naveen J: Uh, yeah. So basically it was, uh, sheer luck. Okay. And just the attitude to just apply means like, uh, it was not something which I planned, so like, ill be into top 50, definitely not.

Naveen J: Mm-hmm. Means like what happened is like, just in case, if, you know.

Naveen J: Yeah. So I do follow him a lot and, uh, in Linden, like I have been since, you know, somewhere in the period of 2020, I have. So I was working towards it. So at that point, like this ran content saying that like, see, uh, if you want to create something, if you wanna be a content creator, entrepreneur, and like learn, we're building another platform, something.

Naveen J: Okay, all that you need to is apply for it. And there will be like big people, like uncle,

Naveen J: all these people will come and train you like, uh, what they did. So that like they got into that huge level and like how you can also become that and like what you should be doing for that. All these things. So I was like, okay. I just applied and like, uh, my, uh, main core area was finance. Okay. Right. So I was like solo, I applied and uh, all that they asked is like, you just need to do one session, uh, for the first time.

Naveen J: Because like at that point, graphic platform was something like, it should not more to many people at the Earlie stage I'm speaking. Okay. Right. So then I was like, okay, solo. Anyways, like I do have some amount of students and, uh, it's been a while since I'm in the entrepreneurship and like, you know, into the business.

Naveen J: So it makes some sense, like if people are coming. So I went ahead and made some sessions, like the first session I got somewhere around like, you know, a hundred to hundred 20 plus people in the session. Ok. So I did, uh, you know, discuss with a lot of people, share it with some and all those things. And, uh, uh, ratio with respect to the people who are watching, it was pretty high.

Naveen J: It's like more than 70% of the time they watch all the, the whole video. So that's when like, uh, I got selected. It's like it was pure outta luck. It was not something like, okay, cello, I'm going to get selected. Or like, if you ask me, uh, do I have so much of skills? Definitely not like compared to many other content creators, I'm someone like who is a very move to it.

Naveen J: But yeah, uh, it happened. You're

Djagmo: being really modest and humble here. I can definitely see that because I'm sure, you know, uh, probably, you know, uh, I think, uh, the word luck gets used when people don't really, um, probably, you know, you don't like really break it down and analyze what exactly got me that thing because probably, you know, you're not a person who's totally obsessed with it or something.

Djagmo: But I'm sure you know, uh, there is something that really caught on the students attention, um, in that thing. And I assume, uh, from what you said, uh, I, uh, take it that it was a self-paced course. It was a recorded course, yeah. It was not a live one-on-one. Right. It

Naveen J: was a live, like, uh, not one-on-one. It was a live session.

Djagmo: Oh, sorry. Yeah, it was a live. Oh, okay. Fine. And, uh, when you said that, you know, people, uh, continued to stick on to your session for more than 90% of the time, this is what you for. It was a recorded session at all.

Djagmo: Got it. I think, um, the reason is, uh, pretty clear from whatever you said. I don't know how you said that, you know, you are not a, a talented or a skilled guy and all those things, but I think as a teacher, the primary skill lies in, you said, right? Uh, in the beginning. If you are able to make a six year old understand, I think, uh, that's all a needs, probably that's what you did.

Djagmo: And, uh, probably that is why, you know, people continue to stick on for more than 90%. Um, yeah. Okay. And then what happened after that? Like what's your journey on graph been like? That was your first thing, like first experience. That was the

Naveen J: first thing. And uh, after some 15, 2 20 days, I get okay that, uh, I have been selected out of the other 49 people.

Naveen J: So that is when the training started. It's like, uh, these top 50 people are the one, like, we need to create more sessions, uh, videos and all those things. Uh, on top of that, like, you know, the resources, like all these people like. Okay. What he should do as a content creator, so like when these people come and train us, like we get through, okay, like whatever we are thinking, okay, this is content that would be wrong, right?

Naveen J: But for any reasons, like, uh, if we focus on in the right, like if you ask me about uncle, he's a proper mathematics person, okay. Means like he exactly know, uh, what is the content he should give and how many likes he get, how many views he get. So he plants it to such an extent that like the 24 hours likes okay, subscribers, so month on month, like, uh, how much likes is growing, how many subscribers are growing?

Naveen J: He calculates almost everything. And like, he almost done seven to eight platforms, if you know Right. LinkedIn, Instagram, with the podcast. So like he just know the mathematics of it. Okay. So that is the whole reason, like why he's able to scale it. So how he does it, like, and, uh, why he does it. Like if you see, sometimes we feel like, uh, bad for this person.

Naveen J: Like, okay, every time he says, okay, three things. I wish I knew. Three things that, three this. So he keeps saying it, right? But like, what is actually working? Basically there's a rule of three, like, whenever you see anything called as three, right? He will stick to it and you read it. Okay. Either two will not work or even five will not work.

Naveen J: But three works

Djagmo: psychology. Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Naveen J: Okay. So he just considers everything and, and definitely he's a businessman. Okay. Before being a content creator, right? Like, uh, he started a company called Nearby. So those are the things working. Yeah. So these things you'll learn and like when it comes to it's absolutely different again and see, focus more on content, okay.

Naveen J: And like build a content, like, uh, rather than just simply creating a content, build it like part one, part two. So make people curious. So these are the things like, which we can learn like, uh, the growth means it was just one beer visa channel with respect to fitness, but today it's not just a YouTube channel at all.

Naveen J: Like he owns around four to five businesses, right? So that's a huge thing out of just one YouTube channel. So in this way, like how these people are building backgrounds. Bts. Yeah.

Djagmo: Great. Navin, uh, you said something really interesting, two things very interesting, but I'm gonna like, you know, I'd come back to both these two things.

Djagmo: You said don't create, but build, right. What is the difference? Can you dive deeper and explain what is the difference between creating content and building content and you know, how it translates into different outcomes?

Naveen J: Uh, see, like, uh, whenever, like we create a content, anybody can create it. Okay. Uh, like, uh, if you see some of the in reels or YouTube videos, there'll be some videos where you get like three to 5 million, you know, likes and all, somewhere likes just three to 5 million of likes.

Naveen J: Okay. But, uh, if you see followers or the other videos of those people, you'll not have such a great number of views. Or like, it'll

Djagmo: be gone. Exactly. Okay. There'll just be a one real wonder or something like that.

Naveen J: One real language shoots up, that's it. It's like whatever. The others, it'll not be there. But, uh, when you see the other channels, like, you know, uh, most known people, like there will be a consistency, for example, like, let's say through, right, so you take any view, you'll have a minimum of two like views getting the idea.

Naveen J: So like, what happens? He's building, he's like, after making one video, people are waiting for the next video. Oh, I want to see this guy. I want to see this guy. What he comes up with the ideology. But like, whereas when you see any reels, you'll not say, I want to see this guy again. Okay, this guy is making fun.

Naveen J: I'm enjoying, I'm done here. Differences. Right? Yeah. So over the period, like what you build matters because, uh, you should know, right? Like, okay, after two years, also, whatever the video you see, it should make some sense. Hmm. So that's the agenda.

Djagmo: Yeah. Great. So what I take from this is, you know, creating content is just randomly doing something and then, you know, you don't even know why it's a hit and you're not even able to something.

Djagmo: But you're saying building content is being more conscious of what you're doing and then having a plan about how you're going to go about things. So, yes. Okay. Got it. And you said another thing, uh, I'm just gonna ask you, what are the three things that you learned, you know, from this, uh, this training that underwent.

Djagmo: Yeah, yeah,

Naveen J: yeah. Uh, so, okay, uh, the first point is like, okay, never say no to any opportunity. Okay? Okay. So like, you never, okay, what comes ahead first thing, uh, and second thing is like, uh, ask questions. That is something like, which I always used to do, but I want more confidence with respect to that. Like, ask questions, like even if it is dumb.

Naveen J: So just go ahead and ask questions. Okay? Either you get a s or no, but if you don't ask, you're not getting anything simple. Ok? And third thing is like, uh, don't think these people as a celebrities, like, uh, anyone you see, right? Be it

Naveen J: when you meet them, or like when you go ahead and speak to them, uh, don't make them feel like, okay, you're a celebrity. I'm a fan of yours. Reason behind, they're also human. Okay. Right. So like when we speak like a normal friend, like the way I'm speaking with Ju Mohan, right? So if I speak in the exact same way with those people, they'll be more happy to interact.

Naveen J: Okay. But like, uh, when I say I'm your fan, then like, whatever I speak, I'm just trying to better you up there Han you know, about like, uh, I like you so much, all these things. And like they get to know that like they don't feel good about it and they try to keep the distance. So if I don't like, you're so good with these people, like speak in a normal manner, like they'll be so good.

Naveen J: They'll always help you out. Even in the many other situations other than the, like, outside of that. Also, if you go and speak with them, they'll help you out because like they know, okay, this person is genuine. Yeah.

Djagmo: Great, great. And uh, this, uh, training was on, uh, online thing, I believe. Yeah,

Naveen J: it was online.

Djagmo: Okay. Did you, did you get a chance to network with uh, uh, the rest of the 49

Naveen J: creators? Yeah, like, uh, we have a group like, uh, I did make some good friends out of these people. Uh, some of them are having almost like a million followers. Okay. So, you know, around file subscribers on YouTube. So it is there definitely, I I did meet some great people all over India.

Djagmo: Great, great. Nice. And tell me, uh, something, you know, after the training that you underwent with Graphe, uh, you started, uh, you know, are you active on Graphe? Have you built an audience in Graphe? What, what, what are the changes that you saw, uh, you know, with your creation

Naveen J: process? Yeah. Uh, that is something like which, uh, I did a mistake there to be very honest with you.

Naveen J: It's like I was supposed to go ahead and build something, like really great considering the training all, but I was focused on my startups. Like, I need build this product all because something like which focus very little. Okay. Uh, maybe like if I would've focused more, uh, the things would've been very much different, but I thought, okay, business is first.

Naveen J: Let me focus on my starter. So I focused on that rather than focusing more on the content part. So that was the whole mindset. But, uh, later now I'm focusing on the creation part as well. But yeah, like, uh, we do whatever the platforms we are using, uh, we are using graphic platforms itself, like our application websites, all those things like we're building on graph as of flow.

Djagmo: Okay, fine. You said, you know, you made a mistake, right? Uh, when you, when you started talking about your creation, your creation, you said, you know, you focus more on your business and, uh, but you refer to that as being a mistake. Why did you refer to that as being a mistake?

Naveen J: Uh, I'll tell you something. Like if at all, his YouTube channel today, okay.

Naveen J: He would not grow to that extent where he's live even after next five years. Okay. Means like, uh, there's always going to be a saturation point. Uh, there's always going to be more people who comes into the picture. So like when this whole graph thing started, right. Uh, it was great. Um, it's like we had a lot to learn, but it came somewhere in between when I was in the early stage of my startup as well.

Naveen J: So I used to take care of both of them. Okay. I learned it there and I thought, okay, I'll implement it, but later I'll implement it. Like, the learning was great, I should implement it, but I thought I'll implement it bit later. So that is something like, uh, which didn't work out. That's what I mean to say.

Naveen J: Yeah.

Djagmo: You mean to say you lost some, you know, critical time there, which, which, which made a lot of difference for you. Yeah.

Naveen J: Yeah. And especially it was a lockdown time as well. Right. Okay. Got it. So it be a huge difference. Majority,

Naveen J: majority have the. They were not doing existing. Yeah. Right. So

Djagmo: that's there. And Navin, uh, this content you were gonna create, um, obviously based on your domain that is the CMA and all those things. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. And, uh, in this, uh, group of 49, 50 people, uh, were there any other, uh, person from the same domain?

Djagmo: Was there any other Oh yes. Like,

Naveen J: uh, not exactly for the professional courses, uh, but there were a few, few people with respect to finance management. Okay. Uh, business knowledge like that. There were a few people. Yeah.

Djagmo: Got it. And, um, Navine, when I asked you, uh, you know, what are the three things that you learned from that training that you underwent with Grafi, right?

Djagmo: You said, as a, as a person, what are the things that you realized? For example, you know, uh, you, you, uh, uh, spoke about not treating anybody as, uh, you know, celebrity, just, you know, go and ask them questions. Um, that is the thing. And then you said, you know, uh, do not stop asking questions no matter how silly, or, that's okay.

Djagmo: Those are three things that you learned from an outside perspective. Now, what I want to know is what are the three things that you took away from their training? You know, what are the three top lessons you thought that you got from them? Okay.

Naveen J: Uh, first point is quality over quantity. Sorry, quantity over quality.

Naveen J: Okay. Yeah. Means like we all think, okay, we should build something, which is perfect. No, there's world you build. Okay. Like, uh, you put hundreds of videos, random videos outta hundred one will click and get to know why it's being click and work towards it first thing. Okay? Uh, and then second thing is like, trust the process.

Naveen J: Got it. Got it. Means like, content creation is not like, okay, firstly you got hundred second day, 230, 300, no 30 days, you'll get zero 30. First day you may get 10 and or somewhere on 50th day you may get thousand. So that's the way it works, means like you just need to trust the process and you just keep moving ahead with it.

Naveen J: Okay. So that is something like, which I understood considering these people in the second and third thing is like if, keep piloting like, uh, we think, right, okay, uh, I'm comfortable with respect to this content. Should I go and focus on some other content? That question will be there, right? So no, just keep like, uh, it's like go to some other place.

Naveen J: Come back and again, keep doing whatever you do. It's okay, but like think if that works. Like, you know, your a educational channel, but also focus on logging for a while. Like one, one or two videos you make. Like a, but please keep, uh, you know, make sure that whatever you are working, like, you know, uh, education content, right?

Naveen J: Even at the type of logging, if you can provide some education content, go ahead. But like, you are just changing the way you are delivering now, right? Like, I can just teach you right now in this way, or I can go somewhere outside and give you the real life example examples, right? So think about it like whatever the changes you can do.

Naveen J: So if you can or if you can change and keep upskilling in any possible way, go ahead and focus on it.

Djagmo: Yeah. Got it. Uh, just to, you know, uh, uh, kind of get some more clarity. On the third point you said. Very interesting, you said, look, if you're already a creator creating something or building a content, you're saying please try creating in a different way.

Djagmo: Or even, uh, Altogether a different thing. Feel free to do that, but do not stop whatever you're already doing, keep that also going, but then do something else also. That's what you're saying? Yeah. Parallel. Parallel. Yeah. Parallel. Do not stop whatever you're doing that is working for you, is what you're trying to say.

Djagmo: Great. Great. Um, and, uh, you know, you said the, uh, from biceps and who are the other people that you mentioned? Uh, uh

Naveen J: Okay. Uh, Andrew, uh, and, uh, one more person. This one, you know, uh, there's something called like trend just in case, if you

Djagmo: know. Yeah, yeah. Shitty ID trending. Yeah. Those, yeah. Okay, great. I, I, I just asked so that, you know, people can probably go follow them and see, you know, pick out some trends or patterns from them and, you know, if there's something for them to learn, they can do that.

Djagmo: That's the reason I. Navin, uh, now, um, considering that, you know, uh, we are catering to people who are in the teaching domain or in the training domain, there's one important thing that I wanted to talk to you about, A core thing, right? You said, uh, and I'm sure a lot of people have told this, uh, big guys in the past, if you can, whatever you are teaching, if you can help a six year old understand, then you are, you know, teaching amazing, right?

Djagmo: Then you're on the right track. Sure. I'm sure there are different methods in which people crack this code. I mean, like, what is, can you offer some insights to people out there, you know, who are in the teaching domain, but who might not be, you know, who might not have cracked that goal? How do they figure out that, you know, uh, do they literally go and teach a six year old and see if the six year old understands, or what is it?

Djagmo: Can you, uh, deep dive into this, please?

Naveen J: Yeah. Uh, see, like, uh, sometimes even like, we failing it. Okay. It's not like, okay, we always, uh, get to teach and like people will understand that's not gonna happen, right? Sometimes we'll meet someone like, who is way more experienced, and whatever you say, it makes sense.

Naveen J: Okay? Uh, first thing is like, see, it's a English, okay? Or like, you take any language, uh, whenever, like you ask something, right? Uh, if I use some great words, you know what like, you know, uh, psychoed that, like, if I use some crazy words, right? It'll be like, what is happening? I have lost the connection.

Naveen J: Correct? So make it so simple, like, uh, for example, analysis. How will you define the word analysis, sir? Like, analysis means like, you ask anyone, they'll be like, uh, sir, analysis means analyzing. Okay? What is analyzing now means? Like you are going to cut it down. Okay? Like, whatever the question you ask, then like, definitely expect the answer from the students first.

Naveen J: So you get to, okay, where are they standing? Okay. So like once you understand, okay, where they're standing, then go ahead and keep asking the questions. It's not like, okay, nobody is done. It's just that people have stopped thinking somewhere. That's what I believe. So it's like everyone is intelligent, especially like when we say Indians, we are intelligent, but we have stopped our thinking.

Naveen J: That's it. To some extent. Maybe like, I may sound rude on this, I'm sorry for that. Okay. No, no. So that is there. Yeah. So what happens is like whatever the questions you ask, they'll give the answers. And again, you know, deep dive into it. Why? Like what is happening? So once you start asking the questions, like everyone know what is sales, what is cost, what is profit?

Naveen J: Correct? Like, uh, nobody's, you know, even that dumb, you know what I'll bring and I sell for.

Naveen J: So people know it, but like, why, why will you do it? Cause I want to make money. I want to earn profits so they'll understand it. So rather than like you teaching everything to the person, people are already intelligent. Just bring that out of them, like speak to them so that they'll be like, okay, ha, this is true.

Naveen J: Because even you would have used Amazon Prime, uh, you would have used, you know, many other subscriptions like, you know, uh, this one, uh, ZMA Pro or like, uh, why you get Amazon Car Free Delivery. So, so many things are there, right? And like most importantly, why are you getting so much of, uh, uh, you know, products at such a lower price in Amazon?

Naveen J: Why, how will they make money? Right? So somewhere like we need to understand, you'll be, you'll get curious about it. So bring their real life situations to the people. They will only discuss a lot with.

Djagmo: Got it. Navine. So when you say that, you know, uh, teach in a way that even a six year old understand what you mean is that, first of all, use simple language. This is to all the teachers out there, you know, if they want to improve their teaching methodologies, use very simple language so that you know, people don't lose the connection with you.

Djagmo: If you use some jargons, which you're not able to avoid, then take some time out and break that down for them. Probably that might help, you know, that might even help them learn a new word or two. And another thing is you're telling teaching is not a one-way traffic. Try and communicate with them, you know, make it a two-way thing.

Djagmo: Discuss, teach in the form of a discussion is another thing that I would take away from what you said. And use real life examples, what most of them are using today. Uh, so I think these things, if you follow, you're almost there. Uh, you can say that, you know, you are teaching, um, in a way that even a six year old can understand.

Djagmo: Great. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. Uh, uh, breaking down Navin. Um, now going back to your content creation, right? You said, um, after attending the training that was offered by Grafi, you said, you know, you probably delayed it a little bit and you should have taken the opportunity right then and there, but it's better late than never.

Djagmo: You've, you've, you know, you've started now recently. Um, what is, what are some of the rules that you follow while you're creating your content? Now, I'm, I'm sure you're trying to build your social media presence, right? And, uh, what are the platforms that you're primarily targeting, and what is the strategy that you're looking to implement?

Naveen J: Oh, I'm focusing right on, only on Instagram. Okay. Means, uh, just the Instagram for the video content. Ok. And, uh, LinkedIn is gonna be there. So I'm just, uh, being very, it's not like, okay, I'm super active or something like that. But yeah, I'm looking forward to get activation again on, so that is, so when you say Instagram, like, uh, I am someone like, uh, who doesn't believe in a cringe content somewhere, means maybe the reason will be there.

Naveen J: Like, that's the reason why I love Instagram a lot. Somewhere like, you know, uh, whatever people speak, it makes a lot of sense on Instagram. Sorry, on LinkedIn as compared to Instagram, right? Okay. So that's one of the reason why it has been delayed for a very long period of time, uh, with respect to my content.

Naveen J: Ok. But now what I understood is like, I was actually wrong thinking that, okay, people just like Prince content, okay? Uh, if a girl is coming and dancing or if some guy is doing a joke, they'll get a lot of flags. They don't care about the knowledge content, all right? Uh, but yes, uh, especially our people, our Canada people have proved it wrong.

Naveen J: Like, uh, they did say that like if you give a quality content, we do care. But like, how you give matters, right? Okay. So like, now what I'm understanding is they give a quality content and like we will quit more consistent. Uhhuh Plus. Yes. Uh, you need to have some tricks, uh, you know, like a hook plan. First three to four seconds, what you speak.

Naveen J: Matters. Okay. Like, uh, if you lose people in the first three to four seconds, then you're gone. You can't do anything for that. But like, first thing is we should focus on that, right? And over and above that, like, there are many other things like, you know, uh, likes is just a small matter. Save and share matters a lot.

Naveen J: Okay? And out of everything, if people are able to connect with you or not, if people are able to connect with you, then like you're done. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I understood. Okay, just keep a quality content. Okay. Create something really good for them. And I'm someone like, you know, uh, who is, uh, who is one of lot of movies, like, uh, if I have a break, all that I do is just watch movies or websites.

Naveen J: So that's the whole thing, which I always prefer to do in my whole life. So if that's the case, okay, that's the same thing I'm taking into the, you know, uh, content integration as well. Like, just in case like iff, there's so many things to learn from. Yeah. So take that and bring it into the corporate culture, like why he became a great businessman.

Naveen J: What is wrong? What is right? So once we start getting into that, people are also interested. Like I did observe, like, uh, if, you know, in car, like for divorce is a huge fan. This Yeah. It's like a divorce is almost like a God. So yeah. Uh, and that is something like which we have, we don't care about politicians, but we care about our stars.

Naveen J: Like Yeah, yeah, yeah. They, to us. So when whatever they speak, it gives some, you know, feel like, yeah, whatever these people are saying, it makes sense. Be it, you know, uh, our, this guy, you know, this, uh, movie, uh, you know, KA. So he's a great actor outta nowhere more than that, like some of the words what speak it makes a lot of sense.

Naveen J: He's a great motivator somewhere. So it's not like one person or two person, but like when it comes to movies and the movie stars, we love them a lot. So create a content according to, that's like dialogues quality. So that is something like, which I'm focusing right now, you ask Business plus movies, create a content that is Biz Nav.

Djagmo: Okay. What is your Instagram handle? Biz by nav. Oh, biz Nav. Yeah. Okay, cool. So interesting. Uh, so what you're saying is now, for example, when you said KG F right? You're saying that Kg F uh, you have, you created something like what are the three business lessons we can learn from the kg? Are you talking about.

Naveen J: Yeah, like, like, I haven't created that. You just gimme one content idea. I'll focus on that. Yeah,

Djagmo: sure. Uh, no, because I was, I was just wondering, you know, how you can mix up these two things? Uh, you know how you can probably bring in these two things and, uh, that's what I thought. And when you said, okay, I'm gonna dig a little bit deeper on this topic.

Djagmo: Uh, why? Because I feel this is a little valuable for all the teachers out there. I think one of the biggest problems that we face is to get students right. And I'm not saying, you know, you need to market on all those things, but if you dig deep, And if you see why some teachers are not getting good students, even though they think they're great teachers, it's simply because students don't know you, man, you need to put yourself out there, right?

Djagmo: Otherwise, how are the teachers, you know? And today, you know what the best thing that's happened for teachers is teachers do not have the bo you know, problem of boundaries. If you are in, no matter where you are, which remote is part of India, you are. If you're a good teacher, you can get students from all over the world.

Djagmo: And for that, I think one of the important things that you need to do is create content on social media and put it out there and it doesn't have to be teaching. And that is why I think this is important topic to discuss because you said you told something that's very important. Students today, especially in places that are not in cities, maybe they're, uh, you know, one of the important, uh, uh, you know, part of their life, at least from where I come from, right?

Djagmo: South India, if you see there is a lot of following for stars, as you rightly said. So you are telling go. Take something from their interest zone and link that with your domain, is what you're saying as a concept. Yeah. I understand Navi, this is fine, but I want to, you know, get some actionable examples from you if you were to address, you know, let's say there are 50 teachers that are listening to you and their next question in their head goes Okay, but hey, you know, how do I go and do this?

Djagmo: Can you give a practical example? Like how can they go about

Naveen J: doing this? Yeah, I'll just give you one example. Like, uh, it's not even directly from the movies. Okay. But, uh, okay. Just a small act of, okay. Uh, see whenever, like, uh, vc, okay. He's a national star, uh, cause of one movie. Yeah. He's been known to almost everyone now.

Naveen J: And because of that, like he got a ad of this good, correct? No. So he rejected it. Right? That's a huge amount of money to him. Okay. But like still, he rejected it saying that like, I don't want to give a wrong message to my people in any possible way. Okay. So that's the difference, like which is gonna happen means somewhere.

Naveen J: Yes, definitely. Like we need to understand, okay, he's a actor, whatever he does is acting. So in that case, like it's okay for him to make money, but like he was not okay with it. So we understand, right? Like as a fan, we have a lot of respect to this guy now getting the idea. So that is one. Or like in the same way, uh, whenever we see the, like, we get to know, okay, like what is he trying to do with respect to these things?

Naveen J: You know, uh, you know, forest Department, he's a brand ambassador for our forest department. If, you know the, so like these people set an example, like more than movies, what do they do in real life? Makes some sense. That is one, right? Uh, otherwise, like, just in case, have you watched Googly movie in any case?

Naveen J: Uhg No. No. So let's just take, will be a scene where he goes and meet. A small scene, right? No, like, uh, uh, he meets with this, uh, Aira. Okay. He'll have a fight and then he goes and meet this. So everyone will think, okay, what is wrong with this guy? Correct. No, like he's taking all the gold, everything and he's going, but he'll go ahead and plan for a bigger business.

Naveen J: Like Right. Sitting here or sitting in just one Bangalore, I can't do anything. If I want to control whole India, I need to go ahead and speak with a boss that is in, he has such a huge power, so let me directly go and deal with that person rather than dealing with some random people one. Right. Okay. Right.

Naveen J: So that's the content, like if you are building something, you just don't focus in this level, focus on this level so that like, it makes a lot of sense. I hope you're able to get an idea like the birds, I view. In the same way, like if you think about K, uh, there's a dialogue.

Naveen J: Uh, I'm sorry I'm speak, but yeah, like, whatever. No, no.

Djagmo: Interesting.

Djagmo: I mean, it is, see you're talking, uh, a lot about movies because I'm sure, you know, there is something about it that you are trying to implement. All I'm trying to do is just, you know, figure out what is the, I'm just trying to get in your shoes and see the way you are trying to see. That's about it. Now, when you said, I'm gonna like dig a little deeper on this nav Naveen, you know, till I get a clear understanding.

Djagmo: Now, you said, when I asked you to give, you, give me some examples. You spoke about, uh, you know, yes. Uh, rejecting a certain ad opportunity and you spoke about Chen, um, you know, being the brand ambassador for Ka Wildlife and Forest and all those things. Now, are you saying teachers, uh, should talk about these things or are you saying teachers should do something like this?

Djagmo: I'm not getting, uh, uh, you know, this part,

Naveen J: uh, see, yeah, like, uh, again, like see, uh, let's say for example, like you're not someone who is very much called about movies and okay. And obviously, like when we say there are 50% of the people who love these stars, there are other 50% of the people who hate that.

Naveen J: Is it with the teachers? I'm clicking ok. Like, uh, these people are likely, you know what, this will come, he will have a, in his mouth what kind message he is giving with K. So all this also will come. So it's not necessary like, you know, straight away. Okay, we should take these examples and teach them. Okay?

Naveen J: I'm not saying it, that's just my personal means. Like connect with them in such a manner, it makes some sense to them. Reality. Like, uh, all that you see is just the content of the movies, right? Other than that, like, what's, what do you have? Or like, let's say as a teacher, if you start speaking about how many people are ready to listen to you?

Naveen J: And like, definitely we would've heard, you know, what, like, uh, gravity was light cause there was no electricity at that point. Is uh, does that mean like I should also go and sit down this, uh, electricity light and I should read? No. So that differences will come, right? Mm-hmm. So whatever the examples you are giving, it should make some sense for it, like for from the students perspective.

Naveen J: So that's what I'm

Djagmo: doing. Go nav. No, no, no. Uh, I think I, I, uh, got your point. Now, uh, I'm gonna like, you know, uh, explain and then, you know, you can probably let me know the, you know, if I'm thinking correctly, what you're trying to say is this. Um, what are you are teaching as a teacher? Um, identify what the students are interested in.

Djagmo: Let's say, yeah, a lot of students are interested in movies. A lot of students are interested in some animated cartoons or some characters somehow bring those, bring those people and intertwine with your narrative is what you're trying to sing because this is, this is the way you capture their attention.

Djagmo: And then probably put a title with these actors name and then mix up your content so that it, this, you're using this to grab students' attention because you're talking about, um, uh, an idol of a particular group of students. So students is bound to click and see what is this guy talking about, Chen or somebody?

Djagmo: And then, uh, while you still talk about them, which take, you know, gets their attention, you also communicate, you know, whatever you have to, with whatever you're teaching. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is, and I, I think this can be, uh, you know, applicable for teachers all around India based on their demography and you know, based on their state and all those things.

Djagmo: Great. Got it. Um, Navine, I just quickly, you know, uh, I didn't know your Instagram handle, uh, before you told me it's this nav because I've only been searching anything that's related to the, um, Can we spend a few minutes just, you know, let me just ask you a quick number of questions. I see that you've got about 79 posts, uh, and then, you know, you've got about thousand 970 followers.

Djagmo: You've got 72 following. So, uh, the way I look at your profile is that look, you know, there are some people who have followers, but their following will be more. So there is not much credibility there because, you know, if you follow 3000 people, maybe thousand 500 of them will follow you back. So that's no big deal.

Djagmo: But, you know, if you've got thousand, nine 70 followers, but you're only following 72 people, it's quite a bit of organic following that I see here. And what I see, the first thing that I see when I open your Instagram profile is that there is a certain pattern and style you've, you've chosen the color blue, at least for your first, uh, the first few posts that I see is, is, is all got the blue background.

Djagmo: So I see this, you know, you're trying to build a brand for yourself and, uh, you're talking about, um, Interesting topics about Amani and free petrol and all those things. So can you, uh, share your thought process behind this? Why have you done whatever you've done? And, um, if you can also talk about how much time it took for you to reach thousand 970 followers on Instagram and has, has your plan been working so far?

Naveen J: Uh, yeah, like, uh, my plan is working out. I would say, uh, what happened is I was expecting a great number to be very You, Instagram,

Naveen J: that was my expectation. Ah. To be very honest. Right. Okay. Right. But like over the credit, I did understand. Okay. That's not the way it works. So the whole point, like what's happening here is, uh, somewhere I want provide the content, which I want to give. To be very honest, like, uh, I want to make sure that at least kda people have, have the right kinda language and Right kinda knowledge Okay.

Naveen J: In their own way. So that is something like, which I'm thinking about to be very honest on that part, but somewhere, uh, if you ask me like three, honestly speaking, I'm not interested in that. I don't want that with you. Okay. But like, still, I did it, but, uh, solo, these people are giving free for 50 rupees.

Naveen J: Okay. Why? Okay. So free, it's a hookup plan. They come, they watch, but let them also understand like, okay, why they're giving a free, what is the reason behind it? Because they get a huge amount of data and today data is what matters. So I just changed that perspective means it's like three PET is not something which I want to give, or like if I give it get like, you know, thousand, 2000 likes and all because everyone is interested.

Naveen J: But I just, just change the narrative there. Like, why three pet, why are they giving it to you? It's a customer acquisition cost. By 50 rupe, they're taking your phone number, email id, you know, as well as your name so they can uhhuh promote the products to you later. So simple, simple logic, correct? No. So that is something like, which I'm trying to implement and also like, uh, basically the business lessons you can see like how Dubai people, okay, with respect to silver coins, all those things.

Naveen J: So that is, uh, something like, which is working out for me with respect to my likes. Uh, I have been consistent with it, like, you know, uh, no matter what, any video I put, I will get a minimum of 200 likes and I'm happy with it. Got, like, rather than having 10 followers and like, you know, getting 40, 50 likes or hundred likes, which is of lawyers, I'm getting a good number of likes and I'm okay with it.

Naveen J: That is something like, which I will look forward for. So that's the basic simple logic. And also like when, whatever the videos I have taken with respect to movie stars or taken that as a reference, most of the times it has work. Like for example, you can see something called is okay, uh, and somewhere like I did use, uh, uh name.

Naveen J: So whatever Denzel is there today, it has been started by, like before that in a movie. So after a movie this Denzel came into the picture. So fine. Like that is how the ideas will come. So that's the way it has been impacting. So these are the things like, which are working far better for me, I would say.

Djagmo: And, you know, uh, thank you for, uh, sharing that. You know, you expected 10,000 followers, you'll just put hundred posts in, but the reality is very different. You only got thousand nine 70 followers and I mean, it's not even a deal, right? I mean, you're gonna reach your target. I think, uh, it's pretty evident out there because you've been consistent in all this.

Djagmo: It's just a matter of time. But tell me something. When you expected 10,000 followers by giving out about hundred posts, you're at 79, 80 posts now, uh, it's not very far from your hundred posts, but when you did not, uh, get what you expected, uh, what are the lessons that you learned? Was there any insight that you took away from this?

Djagmo: And are you changing something? Yeah,

Naveen J: I'm changing something. Yeah. Like, uh, I'm changing something in this particular manner. Like see, uh, I wanted the followers definitely, yes. Okay. But, uh, the, kinda the content I give, I'm not someone like, okay, who can make people, you know, fun of people or like who can dance and get the, like, I can't do it.

Naveen J: Okay. To that extent, like there are some people, uh, who are great, you know, no disrespect to them. Uh, they act both like a man and a woman and they get a good number of likes, views, and all like the acting and all. I can never do that. I'm very clear on that. So fine. I did understand Solo to get likes, uh, to get more views.

Naveen J: This is what I should do. Okay. Uh, there are a few things which are, which works more like a strategies. If I do that, it works. Okay, but like now I understood, okay, there's no point in it because what am I trying to make a business channel? So what is my end goal like because of this particular channel outta one, you know, somewhere around 10,000 people.

Naveen J: Even if 10 people started the business, I'm happy with it. I'm done. My purpose is done there. So let me focus more on that. Okay. Cello, like, uh, outta six videos, if I'm doing one video, let it be for followers and shares and sales. Let it be there. One particular video, but at least other five videos.

Naveen J: Whatever I do, let me focus on proper business. So I'm coming up with something called as like, you know, hundred Days of Business. So I'll make hundred videos with respect to business for next hundred days. So it's going to be more like a mini mba, like build from marketing finance. So I again, put the same strategies with respect to stars, all those things, but teach them something out of it.

Naveen J: So they will learn something and then the consistency will be built for next hundred days possibly. That would work for me. That's what I'm thinking. And I'm believing like

Djagmo: that. Yeah. Got it. Nav all the very best. Uh, I'm looking forward to your, uh, so you are planning to do this hundred, like what Batch create and then upload everything every day?

Djagmo: Uh, one at a time. Hmm.

Naveen J: Yeah. Every day. Like one drill, like 90 seconds teach something which is valuable. Simple truth. So basically like what I'm thinking is, uh, create a hundred content first, like, uh, you know, ideation stage. And once you are done with ideation, like every day create one drill hundred. Okay.

Naveen J: Okay. Yeah.

Djagmo: You're not looking to batch create this. You will do one every single day. Yeah, one every single day. Okay, got it. Nav. Uh, so you said the outcome of this, uh, bis by Naveen is, you know, uh, for people to start, uh, you know, probably, you know, start some business that they want to and they get insights regarding that and they'll probably, you know, avoid making mistakes and all those things.

Djagmo: Um, so this has nothing to do with your cma. You're not looking to acquire students from this channel for your, uh, CMA guide course. No,

Naveen J: absolutely not. Means, uh, to the maximum possible time means with respect to my professional course. Uh, I never want to make revenue out of Best Buy Nav, uh, even like in the future over the period of time.

Naveen J: Uh, I will provide a lot of content on YouTube as well, but yeah, that's going to be absolutely free. Means for content, no charges at any point of time strictly.

Djagmo: Got it, Navi. And, uh, you said, you know, uh, when I asked you, um, you're gonna start your content creation, you said, you know, LinkedIn is going on, and then you started off Instagram, but you never mentioned YouTube. Is there any reason why you chose Instagram or YouTube and why have you kind of kept YouTube for later?

Naveen J: Uh, see, uh, right now YouTube is more saturated. Okay. Like, you search for anything, you have a content. It's not like you don't have a content. And, uh, even if I'm getting into YouTube, even if I'm delivering the best content there, like, okay, I'm pro, you know, making eight minutes of video. But for people to reach it, it's very tough because like people don't have eight minutes of precious time to sit back and experiment on me as often.

Naveen J: They don't have time to be very honest, correctly. And, uh, also like, uh, if at all, like YouTube was the thing and uh, if people are really looking for a great content, then Instagram somewhere. Correct. No, but like Instagram reels easily hit because our time with respect to consumption of the content is there.

Naveen J: Right. It's been very less as of like we decide in the first five seconds if you want to watch a movie or we don't wanna simple cut like, uh, there's nothing in between. So at that point you build a base first on Instagram because that's comparatively easier because you have a one of one minute, 30 seconds to prove yourself.

Naveen J: And once you prove yourself, like people will be loyal to you and then you go for YouTube and speak something and they'll think like, okay, this person, whatever he is saying, it makes some sense. Let me watch this guy properly. So that's okay for them. So that is something like, which I'm

Djagmo: believing. Yeah.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Nav and uh, Instagram reels, you know, 15 second, 32nd and 60 seconds, if I'm not wrong. And which one are you choosing? Oh, they, they also have a nine mixed.

Naveen J: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And in the early days, like for the first time when I started, me being a teacher, uh, whatever the topic which comes to me, I can't just sit back and say everything in, in a very precise manner.

Naveen J: I used to explain. So most of the time it used to go for like one minute, 40 seconds, one minute, 50 seconds, two minutes. So that's the most, you know, uh, toughest thing which I should focus upon. And now I'm taking it down to somehow one minute, five seconds. Anyone? That's tough for me because like, how can you, you know, uh, tell me to explain a particular concept in just one minute, 25 seconds.

Naveen J: That's too tough for me. Right. So I can speak a lot about it, but now I'm coming down to it. Yeah. Right.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Navine. Navine. Um, uh, thank you, you know, for walking us through, uh, so much in detail about your, uh, biz by Navine Instagram channel. Uh, there's, there's definitely, you know, a lot of value.

Djagmo: Um, but, you know, I wanna go back to the CMA guy and, um, I want, you know, to understand how do you acquire students, uh, given that it's such a niche thing. I'm sure you know, there are a lot of teachers out there in India, but the kind of target audience you're looking at is, you know, at least for the cma, uh, the U S C M A, you said it's about 8,000 or 10,000, I'm not sure.

Djagmo: The, I'm sure the other courses also is not very much. How do you manage to get your students from

Naveen J: Yeah. Uh, so like, basically for me, there are two sources. Uh, one is through LinkedIn. Okay. And, uh, other one is through social media, Instagram, all those things. Okay. Uh, but, uh, what work, what is working for me is just the LinkedIn.

Naveen J: It's like on social media, Instagram and all, like, uh, definitely we're spending a good amount of money for promotion and all. Okay. Uh, but still, like, it's not giving us a great resource as compared to LinkedIn. Okay. Okay. But, uh, on LinkedIn it's never about promotion. It's always about organic. It's hundred percent organic and like we're getting a good number of leads on a continuous basis.

Naveen J: So considering the quality of the content, uh, with respect to the classes and all, like they see they're getting converted. And also, like right now what I'm doing is, uh, my focus is more on building, uh, valuable content and like, you know, making people pass the exam rather than like, you know, scaling it right now.

Naveen J: Cause I just want to see what is working out for them. It's like I know I can help them pass, but on top of that, somewhere I need to focus if there are 10 people, I want all the 10 people to pass the exams. It's not like, ok, if I are passing, it's ok. That is something which I'm not believing upon somewhere.

Djagmo: Okay, got it. Navin. Um, apart from, you know, uh, before your, you know, if you are kind of looking at the journey, uh, of yours before the CMA guide, there are a bunch of things, right? Uh, two things that I wanna talk about, uh, is, uh, one is CMA Easy. You were a co-founder and then you closed it in, uh, 2021. I mean, that stopped in 2021.

Djagmo: Um, can you, uh, walk us through that? Uh, the, the reason I'm asking you is I'm sure you know there is a lot of lessons that you might have walked away with from ca made easy. Uh, there's a reason you must have started it. Yeah. There is a reason you must have closed it. Um, can you, uh, walk us in detail about ca made easy.

Naveen J: Uh, yeah. So it was just a very small idea, like, uh, uh, in ca professional course, like, uh, getting the right set of notes. That festival, especially at that point of time, okay, getting a short launch. Cause like we can't sit back and study some, you know, uh, 5,000 pages book just a week before example, right?

Naveen J: Impossible. Right. So you need to have your own notes and the marked test paper, recent test papers, all those things. And also a short set of videos. So that is something like, uh, it was a very small idea and I'll tell you the funny part there. We were having 10 co-founders for that particular company.

Naveen J: Okay? That's the fund means, uh, who will start a company with 10 people, correct? No, because like, I was also a student then. Okay. Uh, I was writing my series

Djagmo: example at that point I started, sorry, sorry to interrupt you. I once had, um, you know, a talk with a company, uh, who had about 50 co-founders.

Naveen J: Five. Oh my God.

Naveen J: Okay. But now,

Djagmo: but now, but now they're three. Ok. They were also students when they started. Yeah. It's a fun fact. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, please, please, please proceed.

Naveen J: So, uh, somewhere like, uh, it's just that okay, because honestly speaking, there's no, you know, uh, proper business setup, nothing. This is just one website, which we thought, thought of starting.

Naveen J: That's it. So my idea was like very clear solo, provide them the content and provide them the content in such a manner. Give them four sets, like, okay, uh, level A, level B, level, C level. Okay. So if you want to cover everything in five minutes, you need to go for level. If you're having 10 minutes, go for level B.

Naveen J: If you have 30 minutes, and if you understand for level, and if you full for level something like simple, interesting, they can go ahead and see whatever works for. So, and we used to, uh, go in such a manner. Okay. Like, uh, let's say I'm the expert in costume, so whatever the content which people will give to us, like let's say you're also a student and you created some notes and you can send it to us.

Naveen J: And once you send that particular content to us, we'll review it. And if it is good, if it is, uh, working for you, you know, as well as like working for us, then we'll go ahead and update it on our website. People can download it. So then we decide, okay, like in this way we'll go ahead and do it for almost every single subject.

Naveen J: So that was the whole plans for eight subjects, eight different, uh, resource persons. And then all over the India, any student is there. They can go ahead and give us some information. Like the content. Content, right? Okay. Like previous and all under there. Normally name only, we are going to publish it, but in our websites.

Naveen J: So that was the whole plan means, uh, it, it's supposed to be free for a long period of time. Okay. But over and above that, like if we can go ahead and Monet it in any way, we'll focus on monetizing it like a subscription. Like, you pay 1990, you can access everything. Simple as that.

Djagmo: Yeah. Got it. But it didn't work.

Naveen J: It didn't work? Yeah, it didn't work because like there were eight co you know, somewhere around 10 cofounders on, uh, day one, the day we decided to start. And uh, after three months there was just two cofounders means.

Djagmo: Uh. Okay. And what happened after that?

Naveen J: All of them are good friends of mine. Uh, after that, like, uh, at least like whatever I could possibly do on cm, I was doing like, uh, you know, putting out some content, sharing it with people.

Naveen J: So I was doing it, but I was not trying to scale it up because again, just the way other six co-founders got busy, uh, with the office works and all, so in the same, I got busy, so I was not able to scale it up or like make it something really big. But just that I thought, okay, to the extents, it runs let run.

Naveen J: And I was mentoring people. Like any is there, uh, if you want some guidance, if you want some idea, like, okay, what is required, how to plan career. So I would, I used to give them some guidance on.

Djagmo: Okay. Got it. And, uh, for somebody out there, you know, uh, who are looking, uh, at a similar thing, what are the lessons that you'd like to share with them?

Djagmo: You know, what are the things that you tell them so that they can save some time and effort?

Naveen J: So basically like, see one thing, uh, I'm not someone who has so much of experience to say, okay, this works, this doesn't work. Uh, but like, I have failed. And in the future also, I know I'll fail somewhere, but just that I know I'll come back again. That's the only thing, which I know I'm very clear. But like, one thing is, uh, more the heads are there.

Naveen J: Uh, with the businesses, uh, more tough it becomes like if there's a one boss in the company, uh, decision making is more simple, but if there are like, you know, 10 people, it becomes tough first thing. And obviously like, uh, at the early stage, having no experience, uh, we starting like, we'll not get to know everything on day one.

Naveen J: So it's okay. But, uh, it's always better to have some good networks. So, uh, you know, some good Connects means, uh, this is not just from the CM Agency, but there's something which I have learned means. Uh, you need to have some few number of people, like, you know, five to six people at least to whom you can contact and speak with.

Naveen J: Okay? And, uh, they're not supposed to be your friends or someone who are your well, at any point they should not be. Means, let's say if you have a problem with your business, you call to your mom, the first thing she'll say is like, it's okay. Better. Don't worry. You'll just shut on your business phone to find a job.

Naveen J: You'll be good. Otherwise, I will take care of right? Okay. Because like, they care for us, okay? Uh, but like, uh, let's say there's a mentor, okay? He has not seen you, but like he knows what you are doing. So he'll be very honest with you, right? The, uh, you know, whatever the guidance he gives, it'll not be biased.

Naveen J: So he'll say, see, you do something like this. It works. This will not work. So he'll be honest. Whatever the guidance he's given to you. So that is something like, which I learned and uh, that is one thing which helped me a lot while building my iage. Like, uh, I have spoken with many people like today. Uh, I'm in such a person, like where I can contact them, it's like, you know, uh, getting some good people's contact is a very big deal today because like, you don't get it just like that.

Naveen J: Especially someone who's at a good position. So like when you can get that contact and when, if you call them, if they listen to you right, then it makes a lot of difference. It's like they'll give you right amount of guidance, like from 65 years old to someone who is just 16 to 17 years old. So these people do help, right?

Naveen J: So, uh, have a good network. That what, that's what works. Yeah. Other than that, like mistakes in business is very normal means like even now, also like we have done some mistakes and we'll do some mistakes. So that is there. Yeah. Right. Got

Djagmo: it. And uh, you know, uh, building network is one of the key things like in entrepreneurship, right?

Djagmo: But then you just told build some network, but you know, Where do people start from, you know, building networks? Is it attending events or, you know, what is it? What did you

Naveen J: follow? Uh, I followed LinkedIn cause it was a lockdown time. Uh, means like, see, uh, okay. I was so much into LinkedIn, uh, you know, while sleeping.

Naveen J: I used to just see LinkedIn and sleep. It's like, okay, I used to just crawl down LinkedIn for a hours together and sleep. Ok. And once I wake up LinkedIn, anytime I'm free LinkedIn, like, I was not even having an Instagram account for a very long period of time. Okay. So that, uh, I was so much into LinkedIn.

Naveen J: And then what happened is, uh, like there's this one guy, uh, I can also say his name if that's okay. Like there's a person called Ram. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Ok. So

Djagmo: Ramish Kumar. Yes. Yes. So like, uh,

Naveen J: yeah. So he's a great guy. Like, uh, he has a lot of clarity when it comes to business building the processes and all.

Naveen J: Like he has a lot of clarity. Okay. Yeah. But, uh, he also writes content, uh, which is, you know, more trending. Trending and its, it's always going be coming up with acam. So all these things will be there. Yeah. So, uh, I was not in his first, uh, you know, level connection, like, you know, in 30 connections be there.

Naveen J: Right. I was not, there was almost having somewhere like two 50. So I was, uh, following him. He wrote one content with respect to this. Uh huh Uh, which, uh, shorter. Which was viral. Yeah. So in the early days, like before even it was going viral, what I did is, uh, what you said made a lot of sense to me. Okay.

Naveen J: It's like, uh, personally because okay, do whatever you want rather than listening to people. I said liability, expense, that's not a right thing. So I just give my perspective there and properly from the finance perspective again. So it made a lot of sense and like he did reply there. Okay. So I was in a connection with him, like in a normal manner.

Naveen J: Like I never texted him on a personal level, huh. But, uh, on comment section only, like we were discussing all these things were happening and somewhere, uh, he wrote like, you know, one person, uh, removed my connection because like, uh, she got angry for, uh, whatever the content I wrote, wrote. Something like that.

Naveen J: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, she removed the connection and immediately I was there. I just commented. So then you can accept my connection request? No. Why not? I just asked it

Naveen J: and immediately like he accepted it. Okay. Okay. So once he accepted it, and then I just, uh, you know, put a message, uh, direct DM and all, uh, saying that, sir, like I'm building something like this, uh, can I speak to you so that like I get a better idea what I'm doing and all. So number, call me tomorrow

Naveen J: the. Nancy didn't even see like, okay, who are you? But just definitely he was remembering, he was, uh, seeing our interactions and, all right, so this is my number. You call me tomorrow at 10:00 AM we'll speak Q. Simple as that.

Djagmo: No, I, I, I totally, you know, I have actually met him once. Um, so Great. Uh, he's a great guy.

Djagmo: Yes. You know, he has time for people without any agenda, in fact, so, yeah. I totally get it. So, but anyway, uh, you know, taking a step back and looking, the bigger lesson here is, um, you know, I think you made a very, you know, you kind of narrated this very beautifully because for people out there, you know, uh, you don't have to step out of your house to build great connections.

Djagmo: I think whatever story Navine just told, I think there is so much to take away. Uh, if you're looking to build network, and network is so important. Uh, and, you know, uh, Navine justified by. Sharing another story just before this. Um, you, you just have to choose one platform. It may not have to be LinkedIn, right?

Djagmo: It can also be Instagram. It can also be Twitter. But follow the same process. I think if they're huge and if you're not able to, you know, connect with them on a personal level, start engaging with them on the post that they're making, and if your comment is valuable, they're definitely gonna, it's definitely gonna catch their attention.

Djagmo: And, uh, that could be a great starting point for anybody to build a great connection. And then, you know, you can move onto their dms and then, you know, have a conversation with them. This is, uh, great stuff. Uh, na So, uh, building networks. This was so Naveen, um, you know, Going back to the CMA guy, right? I think, uh, this is, you know, the core thing for me again, because it's about, uh, people out there, one of the important things for, uh, teachers or trainers is to, you know, uh, run their business and especially online, you know, getting people, you said you are, you are getting your students through LinkedIn and uh, you've, you know, kinda built your LinkedIn following and stuff like that now.

Djagmo: Um, but let's kinda drill down into the guy a little bit from the start. Uh, when you started off, you already was your first student from LinkedIn, the CMA guy? Yes. Yes. Okay, great. Um, and you know how many students, so you started off as a one-on-one when you started off the CMA guy or you.

Djagmo: Yeah. First batch. Okay. Uh, how many students were there in your first batch? Just three. Three, three. Three. Three. And typically what is a maximum number of students? Uh, a CMA batch has,

Naveen J: uh, it depends, like, it'll be somewhere in between 25 to 30, max to max. Okay. Uh, I will cut it down to 15. Okay. That's the fax number.

Naveen J: I'll just, uh, keep it up to 15 accident.

Djagmo: Yeah. Okay. And, uh, yours is a 20 week program, is that correct? Yeah, which is about five months. So your, uh, so your first batch was also five months program?

Naveen J: Uh, no, it's not about five months. Like 20 weeks means it's almost like five. Oh, correct. Two, yeah. Five

Djagmo: weeks.

Djagmo: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. That's ok. Yeah. So

Naveen J: half. Yes. So how it works is like for the first to 10 weeks, that will be 2.5 months. There will be a class of discussion in text and everything, right? And then one month for the purpose of preparation, and the next month they'll write the exam. Okay. So one part gets over, and for another part, another 10 weeks again, you know, 2.5 months plus one month of preparation and one month exam.

Naveen J: So in this way it works, like the classes and everything, it'll be four weeks. When you finish

Djagmo: 10 weeks, you start your, uh, subsequent batch. Yes. Great. And, uh, you started your first batch in 2021, Jan?

Naveen J: Uh, like my personal, my own batch, I started in 2021, not, not 2021, Jan, somewhere in the month of, uh, uh, October, 2020.

Naveen J: October. October.

Djagmo: Okay. This was during summer, during the lockdown. And, uh, this was online. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Now, uh, what were the tools that you were using back then? And, uh, has it evolved now? Are you using the same tools now?

Naveen J: Uh, like I was using, uh, Microsoft Teams for a long period of time.

Djagmo: Oh, interesting.

Djagmo: Okay. Okay.

Naveen J: Yeah. Uh, like even though Zoom is there, but like, uh, I'm more comfortable in teams to be honest. Ok. And, uh, recently, like we're shifting to Zoom, uh, considering the features with respect to cloud, all those things, I'm thinking about going for Zoom itself. Uh, and also like with respect to the applications API and all right.

Naveen J: Uh, Microsoft teams will not so much as compared to Zoom. Okay. Yeah. So recently, like we are working on Zoom, but yes. Like, uh, even today also, like if you ask me, which is a tool you would prefer, it's definitely my.

Djagmo: Oh, very interesting. You're the first person, I'm literally, uh, hearing, you know, who's, uh, who, you know, prefers teams over Zoom, but you're still, you know, without any choice, you're moving to, uh, zoom.

Djagmo: And what is the primary reason? Why are you so comfortable with teams and not Zoom? Uh, is there any specific reason?

Naveen J: Uh, like specific reason is like one thing. Uh, it's very clear, like, you know, uh, it's not cluttered. Like when I, uh, go ahead with teams, uh, what I observe is it's not cluttered as compared to Zoom.

Naveen J: Like, okay, so many options. All these things are not there. That is one primary reason and above, over and above that, like whatever the data we have, right? Everything goes with respect to Microsoft, like OneDrive, outlook. So everything we keep in Microsoft. Ah, okay. Okay. So when, when we take a subscription of Microsoft Teams for the company's, uh, domain name, all those things straight away, what happens is like, it becomes more easier for us.

Naveen J: It's like everything is there in one place. Like let's say I want to use Zoom, like where is that going to be saved under a particular mail id? So where should I save it under Zooms cloud? So I need to go to multiple websites, but like just one access Microsoft, everything is available there, so why not?

Naveen J: That is something like, which made the work way more easier considering, you know, Excel sheets, uh, considering doc, whatever you want. You use everything in one place. That is Microsoft. Yeah. So that's the whole reason. Yeah.

Djagmo: Okay. But what was that point when you decided to move to Zoom? What was that particular thing that was missing in teams?

Naveen J: Uh, like only the API part. Like, uh, if someone wants to join to the classes right directly from, uh, you know, uh, app or a website, right? Okay. Uh, they can't join two teams. That becomes tougher because, uh, in the platform there is no API with respect to teams. Ah, whereas like with respect to Zoom, it's very easy to connect.

Naveen J: And also like, uh, more majority of the times, like, you know, zoom is giving this, uh, free connection, all these things.

Djagmo: Got it. And the platform you're talking about is graph, is it? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So you are doing all your online classes. The front end is graph? Yes, the front end is graph. Oh, but when they join you for a live session, it goes to Zoom?

Djagmo: Yeah. Okay, got it. So, uh, you started off with three per batch. Right Now, where are you at? How many batches and how many students in a batch? Uh,

Naveen J: like if you asked me last one year, I did teach for somewhere around like, you know, eight to 10 batches. That is there somewhere to 10 batches in last, uh, one year, some 12 months.

Naveen J: Okay. Uh, cause like Wes, we can almost like, result of the times we are taking the classes that is there. Okay. Uh, as well as like students somewhere in between 10. So that's the number

Djagmo: 10, 15, and, uh, a one man show? Or do you have a team?

Naveen J: Uh, we have a team, but like as a faculty, I'm the only one. Like, uh, for CMAs, there's just one faculty that is Naveen, but definitely, like, I'm not good at everything, so there are other people who takes care of specific factors.

Naveen J: Okay. But, uh, like, you know, with respect to video editing and with respect to, uh, creating the posters, promotions, all these things, so like there are other people, uh, who work for, but uh, if you ask me with respect to the content, like the whole, the CMA guy, the CMA guy, primary core content, whatever is there.

Naveen J: It's just being by.

Djagmo: Okay. And, uh, whatever courses you're doing is not sessions, is it? Is it, uh, they're all recorded. They're live sessions. So if, if, if they're live sessions, why do you need somebody to edit your videos?

Naveen J: Because like, see, once the live sessions happen, that's one part of it. But after that, like we need to upload it, right?

Naveen J: Like, uh, to give them the access for the students, all those things. So that is where the comes to.

Djagmo: Yeah. Okay. Got Navi. Uh, somebody you know, who's doing it, like you, who's a trainer and you know, who's got time only for the content and to take care of the core, uh, aspect of the business that is content and teaching.

Djagmo: Um, who are the most important people that they need to hire or have. And, uh, have you hired these people that you're working with? Have you hired them on a retainer model, like a payroll or do you work with them on a freelance model? Uh, payroll. Payroll. Payroll. Okay. Uh, how many, how many people do you have with you?

Naveen J: Uh, right now we have with four.

Djagmo: Four, uh, one is the video editor. Another is the, is the video

Naveen J: graphic graphic designer, and the third person is, uh, more like a manager who takes cross students counseling, all those things. Okay. Person focuses on the technical parts, like with respect to website domains, all those things.

Djagmo: Got it. I see that. You know, you have, uh, this website, the cma guy, uh, dot com, and then, uh, you also have your graph thing. So when people, uh, join your classes, where do they come? Do they go to the CMA guy and then they log from there? Or do they go to graph? They'll have to go graph.

Naveen J: No, no, they, they just need to go to the, and that's it.

Naveen J: Uh, from the, they just need to, uh, go ahead and apply for the live classes. There will be a button, uh, saying live classes. If they join for the live classes, it goes to Zoom and the classes will be,

Djagmo: Got it. And, uh, the eight to 10 batches that you said that you've been doing in the last year, close to about, say, let's say 150 of them that you've been teaching, right?

Djagmo: Uh, all of them have come through LinkedIn. Is it you have not spent any money on marketing at all? Uh,

Naveen J: no. No, no. Like, uh, what happened is, uh, for somewhere like I wanted to focus more on getting more experience. Okay. Uh, so, uh, first thing is like I was, I'm teaching in my own company that is the plus on top of that, like there's a academy called Zelle.

Naveen J: Okay. So they did approach saying that like, uh, we are starting a bachelors for cma. Can you come and teach and all this things. Okay. So like, okay, we, uh, go ahead focus on those batch. Okay. So that's, so like I manage like, you know, my classes week, weekend as well as batch

Naveen J: looking for, wanted to the experience of five years in or two years. And that's possible by teaching more and more. Like I can't sit back and wait for five years to understand and figure out ok, what works, what doesn't work. So like, anyway, you have a good amount of time, so better focus on that.

Djagmo: Got it. So in, uh, so when you say these eight to 10 batches, part of them come from Zelle, part of them are yours, Zelle?

Djagmo: Yes. Okay. So it's a split between yours and Z and yours. Yours come mainly from LinkedIn alone.

Naveen J: Yeah, mine comes mainly from

Djagmo: Okay. The, you know, the reason that I was trying to like, ask you so much about this particular thing is, uh, for, again, you know, one of the important things for, uh, knowledge entrepreneurs is acquiring students.

Djagmo: And, um, I think what you've, uh, followed here is you've kind of tied up with another academia, an academic in a formal way. They spend on marketing, they help you acquire students, and then you just go do your, uh, st area, which is teaching. Sure. Uh, but, uh, going ahead, Naveen, um, what is your vision like, do you still intend to continue partnering up with academies or do you intend to have your own academic where you'll go big on marketing?

Naveen J: Uh, so let, uh, to be very honest, uh, somewhere I'm looking forward to work with more people. Okay. Uh, because, uh, kinda the experience I have got, it's not enough for mm-hmm. Means, uh, I started my career with respect to business and. Okay. Uh, like you may ask, right? Okay. There's a guy who is a fresher and there's a guy with 10 plus years of experience.

Naveen J: What is the difference between these two, the 10 plus years of experience? He may do the same business, the thing what I do, but he has a better network of people, okay? He knows like how to do the business, like, uh, he knows to interact with, with people. So, uh, what I believe is, at least for next five to seven years, uh, all that I focus on is working with as many people as possible.

Naveen J: Uh, it's not more about the money, it's about the right of people. What I'm believing in, like, for example, tomorrow for any reason, uh, with your company, if I like something, like I'm more than happy to come and

Djagmo: work with you. Got it

Naveen J: means like, uh, you have some point where I can learn something from you and if I can contribute anything with your company, right?

Naveen J: Like I can do that and like there will be a better learning. Like your, yours is more like a tech company, right? So I get to learn something and somewhere like, uh, just one small point. Uh, it's out of the context, definitely no problem over the period of time somewhere, uh, the period of 30 or something. I do have a plan to start my own event management company.

Naveen J: Ok. A proper company. So for that, like definitely, uh, a person in the ca background, he has no idea what his event management, so he needs to learn it. And, uh, there is a one company in like, uh, again, a good connection from LinkedIn. Okay. So I have a plans to go ahead and work with them, like as an intern list.

Naveen J: Mm-hmm. So that like I get an experience. Okay. How it works. Then I can work on something which I can build on my own right. The way I want build. Right. Okay. So, yeah, like right now I just want to work with any other company depending on what experience I can get and what I can continue. Basically, that's how you learn, right.

Djagmo: Yeah. Got it. Navi, I think to scale it. No, no, it's, it's, you know, it's like wonderful. You've kind of, you know, you know what you're doing, you know that you want to have your own company, uh, but you know that, you know, there you need to kind of wait, uh, build before you go all out. And I think, uh, you're probably doing all those right things and, um, uh, you know, this is something I'm sure it'll be for those who are listening, you know, for those who are in their mid twenties and those who are, uh, you know, aspiring to do things on their own.

Djagmo: Um, I, I, I, I think this is a point that, you know, you can definitely start off on your own, but probably take some time off to build all the connections, you know, build your credibility, have that sort of experience that adds to, you know, when you go off on your own. Navine. Uh, there are just a couple of things that I'd like to touch upon before we conclude.

Djagmo: Um, one is, uh, from the, from the tool perspective, you've told that, you know, you have your website, you were using teams, you've, you, you've, you've moved on to Zoom, but then your background is graph and all those things. Are you completely happy with your tech stack? Um, or what are some things that you wish you would have to make it perfect?

Naveen J: Yeah, it means like, uh, I get to like, uh, you know, you also have a tech domain and everything. Uh, honestly speaking, uh, I just know about that particular thing, but I have never tried or never exploded, to be very honest with respect to Edison. Okay. Like, I'm being very with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please

Djagmo: go ahead.

Djagmo: Go. No

Naveen J: problem. Right now it's, you say it's more like, you know, whatever, like a proper, normal interaction. Cool.

Djagmo: Sure, sure, sure.

Naveen J: Absolutely. Uh, see, uh, with respect to graph, if you say definitely like there are many things that we can improve. Okay? Okay. The quality, uh, the way you are going to take the classes, definitely there's a chance for improvement.

Naveen J: Uh, but what I am thinking right now is, so it's happening. No, let it happen. Okay. Right. Rather than like having the best right now, let me focus on just building my content. Building my product means like if I have my own product, okay, it's not going to be a tough thing to ship from graph to any other platform or build my own platform for that matter.

Naveen J: Right? Okay. But, uh, for that right now, uh, like over the period I understood this. See, technology is not the primary thing. It is the supporting factor for your business, right? Okay. So, uh, maybe like, uh, if there is any other better tool or any other better product, then I'm more than happy to go ahead and shift, correct?

Naveen J: No. So that is something like, which I'm thinking

Djagmo: Absolutely. Yeah. And you said, you know, uh, you wanna make these, uh, live sessions highly interactive. Um, can you, can you more, you know, can you kind of elaborate on that? Because I'll tell you what I have seen so far from, you know, live classes being interactive.

Djagmo: It could be a live quiz while the class is going on. You know, that is one thing that's available on Zoom itself, I'm sure. Uh, you must have seen that feature. It's on the webinar tool and stuff like that. Um, you know, so what, what exactly are you looking for? Uh,

Naveen J: if you ask like exactly like, see, uh, building is one part, but like in the classes, you give them the experience to think and understand and also like, you know, interact.

Naveen J: So how can we do it, uh, give them a case today? This is something like, which is being done by GrowthX, just in case, if you know. Right, right, right. Okay. Uh, so what GrowthX does is like, they take some companies, they teach everything to the students for five weeks, right. And after testing for five weeks, three weeks, there will be a capstone project, right?

Naveen J: They'll say, okay, take this company and how can you make this company grow? Why this company is not good? Right? A very simple logic, right? And once they start focusing on that, people will build it and they'll start interacting. So that is something, a model which will not work for us, right? Considering we have an exam, like GrowthX is not having an exam.

Naveen J: You learn it and you implement it in the real light. But here, it's there in the exam. So how do you make it make a difference? So what I'm thinking is like, first thing is the rewards. Okay? Like you throw, throw a question to the students, let them answer, let them discuss and let them discuss with everyone, you know, why can't we do something like this?

Naveen J: What if this happens? All those things we'll discuss. And once we're done with the discussion, like once we are having a better clarity over it, then straight away, like is explaining it in a better manner, is good at it, reward them. Okay? So that is something like, uh, Which is happening with a platform called Avalon.

Naveen J: I'm not very sure about it, uh, the name of it. But yeah, that is something like, which is happening as of now. What, what's it called? That is something like, uh, Avalon. Avalon, like, uh, this platform does something on their own. Okay. Uh, they have a different kind of sessions they discuss and also the reward.

Naveen J: So something like that, if I can build possibly, so then let me focus on that. And, uh, another important thing, what I'm focusing is, uh, automating more majority of the things like with WhatsApp. Like rather than me using 10 different tools, let me just have one tool where I can use, do everything like WhatsApp, automation, Facebook, Instagram automation, LinkedIn, everything.

Naveen J: Or like even the emailing, Hey buddy, hey buddy, like you have a class at this particular point of time. That is something already there. Already there, but if you don't, another message. So all those things, if you can automate it in a better manner, that will be more better, is what I'm thinking. Yeah.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Cool. I think, uh, what you, uh, spoke about rewards, uh, I had another, uh, session with a person called Ragu Pane. Uh, he has a startup called his, uh, IME Mature. And uh, what he does is, uh, his courses are about internet maturity and, uh, and, you know, digital citizenship and then, you know, um mm-hmm.

Djagmo: He had another startup, uh, before. And then, you know, one of the key problems was people adopting to certain courses and certain tools. And then even with courses today, right? Course completion rate is one of the most toughest things. And he said, uh, gamification is one missing, uh, piece in this whole puzzle of, uh, online learning.

Djagmo: And, uh, I think when you spoke about rewards, uh, that's kind of, you know, what, uh, struck me as well. I think gamifying and then, you know, making the students kind of, you know, uh, get involved in some way or other where it means something. There are stakes at play. I think, uh, that's when it's gonna get more engaging and, uh, it's, you know, the students will skip outta that mindset where they say that, you know what?

Djagmo: I have the recording. You know, even if I missed something here, I'll go watch the recording. I think that mindset is something that we need to help them come out. And I think, uh, this is a great thing. I mean, um, I'll definitely, you know, pass on the message that this particular, uh, segment of us can be off the record and, um, this is something that we can also see if, uh, that can be done possible or something.

Djagmo: Um, Navine, uh, thank you for that, uh, bit of, uh, conversation, really valuable. Also, one, uh, final piece that I'd like to, you know, address, um, coming to your numbers, your revenue, just for people out there to understand what a solar printer can do, um, and different domains, different courses, different exams, have different price points and all those things.

Djagmo: Talking from the CMA perspective, what is the average ticket size, uh, you know, of your courses and your services that you sell?

Naveen J: It's ru for ru

Djagmo: ru for. Okay, fine. And uh, if you're talking and is this the same that you charge even for the academies you tie up with or these are your own, uh, charges for yours to

Naveen J: your uh, these are my own, these are my own.

Naveen J: My own.

Djagmo: Okay. But the, uh, engagement model with the academies that you work for is different. It'll be different. It'll be

Naveen J: sharing model.

Djagmo: Yeah, it'll be sharing model will be lesser also, because, you know, they also put some effort on the marketing front and among those things. Yeah, true. Okay, fine. And you know, as we discuss starting also, you know, when it is a service model, there is a cap on how much you can make.

Djagmo: And let's say for example, you know, uh, if you're talking about, uh, 60,000 rupees, let's say your annual revenue is close to about 50 or something like that, or you somewhere between 50 to one. This, you also have to make payments to the people that are on your payroll. You know, you've four working. Sure, you, you at bigger numbers and greater numbers.

Djagmo: But, um, interestingly, you also spoke about event management, aspiration of yours. So what is this all about? I mean, are you seeing some sort of a marriage between what you're doing right now and even management? Is that what's taking you to management or even management is coming from somewhere else? Can you like, give us a little more clarity on that?

Naveen J: Yeah. Uh, so event environment is like, uh, my first law I can, it's like, uh, that's the, uh, whole thing which I wanted to start. Okay. Okay. That was my first business. Like I did, uh, sit back and work for somewhere like one and a half months to two months mm-hmm. To capture all the data, whatever is required.

Naveen J: Okay. But like, uh, over the period I understood, okay, that will not work out unless you have a good amount of money to invest. Ok. As an event management like company, uh, you need to have a good amount of money to burn for the first six months to seven months, then the is going to happen. Plus like, uh, my idea of event management is, uh, little bit more different than compared to whatever is happening right now.

Naveen J: Okay. Means like, consider it like more like this. Uh, you can get married even with 50,000 rupees or even with 50 Priest, right? Something like that. Right. And like you get everything, whatever you look for, right. According to your balance. Right. Okay. So that's the idea means like that is something like, which I anyway want to do, but I can't do it on day one without any experience.

Naveen J: Right. Plus like, uh, at the time of, uh, you settling down or like, no, you need to figure out, ok, what you'll do with your life. Right. Somewhere you need to figure out. Right. So this is something like, which I never expected that I will start teaching. Right. Okay. Uh, but it came outta nowhere. And right now, uh, it is my bread and butter.

Naveen J: I can Right. One point. Uh, plus, uh, I also do focus on the consulting business. I do work as that. It's like for the other businesses, other startups, I work as a consultant. Okay. So, uh, I get to explore a lot with respect to learnings and all like, okay, why business will work and why business will not work.

Naveen J: All these things are there. So once I'm getting all this idea over the period of time, I get to know I have that much amount to start Environment company. Got it. Because there the risk size is going to be very higher. Right. Okay. So yeah, like, uh, over a period of time, I'm going to make it more automated with respect to the classes, all those things.

Naveen J: Uh, I don't wanna, you know, uh, teach because of money. Like, okay, I'm earning money. I want to teach rather, rather than me doing something like that, I want to teach because I enjoy it. Got it. Okay. So let me focus more on earnings from others, other sources rather than the teaching. Got it. Yeah. So over the period of time, like definitely, uh, I will start.

Naveen J: But not anytime sooner. At least. Like not for next two to three years. Correct. Yeah. Wonderful.

Djagmo: It's purely out of passion. Yeah. Wonderful. Uh, this is, you know, similar to the idea that you spoke about, create, you know, when you're creating, you said feel free to create some other stuff, but don't leave your primary source.

Djagmo: I think, uh, that's the kind of model that you're following here. Also with business, we explore other businesses, but some business that's working well for you, it's bringing some revenue. Keep that going. So your idea is to automate, you know, uh, cut down the time that you're spending on the CMA guy. Yeah.

Djagmo: And then probably, basically by the time. Yeah. And then use that time elsewhere and then automate all of the things here. Great. Navine. Yes. Um, Navine, uh, before we close a bit of, you know, a little bit of fun questions, um, uh, you know, let's say, let's start off something like this. You said, you know, you watch a lot of movies, so, um, what are the three movies that you really loved of, you know, in the recent past?

Naveen J: The recent past, like one is kg. Okay. Uh, can

Djagmo: got it. Kg both the parts. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Can't help. Yeah. Got it. And, um, would you, would you wanna recommend, you know, uh, three books to, you know, uh, teachers, uh, generally teachers plus probably, uh, teachers who are in your domain? Hmm.

Naveen J: Okay. Huh Uh, one is the third portal.

Naveen J: Okay. Uh, that's the first book which I started. Right. Okay. So that is something like, which works a lot, rich. Right. And the second book would be something called the Romance in the Balance Sheet. Okay. It's called As in the Balance Sheet. It's like a very basic book. Uh, it gives you a basic understanding.

Naveen J: Uh, any teacher who reads it, uh, he feels like it's dumb. To be very honest, like I know all these things. Uh, but like why it works is it's starting from that basic level. Got it. It's like you get to know, okay, uh, those are the rules. That is where you should get here. Right. Okay. So that is second book. And the third book I would recommend is not recipients.

Naveen J: Okay. Uh, SAPs, uh, it teaches you more about life. That's the whole point. Like from where life started, why life is like this and what happens, something

Djagmo: like that. You kinda get a big picture context and stuff like that. Yeah. Got it. Navine. Um, thank you so much. It was a pleasure. Um, I think I've covered all the bases, you know, all the questions that I had for you and, uh, I really have to appreciate you for, you know, um, taking a lot of time to address each of those questions.

Djagmo: Um, you are pretty transparent. I don't think you held back anything from whatever I understood. Um, I really wish, uh, probably a year down the line, I'm sure you would've, uh, reached greater heights and I'd love to, you know, get back in touch with you and probably do another part of this podcast and see, you know, and get, pick your brain as to what you've learned in the next one year.

Djagmo: I'm sure, you know, whatever you shared is gonna be super valuable to all the listeners out there. Um, uh, so yeah, thank you so much, uh, for joining. Yeah. This podcast is brought to you by Edison os a no-code EdTech platform to operate an online education business. Knowledge. Entrepreneurs can use Edison OS to sell online courses from their own websites, manage online masterclass, launch mobile learning apps, sell online practice tests for competitive exams, run online learning communities, digitizing their offline tutoring business, use it as a learning management system, and a lot more cases in the domain of knowledge commerce.

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