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8th Feb 2023
1hr 25mins

Episode 5 | Mathew Verghese | Personal Growth Consultant

Today's guest Mathew Verghese a personal growth consultant for Proctor Gallagher Institute -USA, he helps individuals magnify their results.

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Transcript of Methew Verghese

Djagmo: Welcome to the Knowledge Entrepreneurs Show, where we celebrate the innovators driving change in the education industry at Edison os. We've worked with over 500 knowledge entrepreneurs to turn their EC ideas into profitable businesses. In today's episode of the Knowledge Entrepreneur Show, we have Matthew Ese after two plus decades of extensive involvement in preparing and analyzing financial statements, viewing effectiveness and efficiency of operations, writing and rewriting audit reports.

Djagmo: He has transitioned to another domain very close to his heart, the human potential. As a personal growth consultant for Proctor Gallagher Institute usa, he helps individuals magnify their results. He often draws a parallel between his current role as a consultant and that of his earlier role as an internal auditor.

Djagmo: The difference though, is that instead of companies, he now helps people uncover their genius and bring their potential to the surf. This. Great. Okay, Matthew, so welcome to the Knowledge Entrepreneur Show. Uh, thank you for taking your time, uh, for this, um, you know, really looking forward to having this conversation with you.

Mathew: Yeah, the pleasure is all mine too. Thank you.

Djagmo: Thanks. Thanks Matthew. Uh, so before we start off, before I start off with some questions, I'd just like to, you know, uh, for the sake of the listeners as well as for you all. So just a quick, uh, introduction into why we are doing this podcast. Exactly. And why is it called Knowledge Entrepreneurship?

Djagmo: So, uh, if you see EdisonOS, uh, you know, TeachEdison, but the product right now is Edison Os, uh, under Teach Edison. And our platform is mostly 99%, uh, used by, uh, educators across country and across, uh, other countries as well. And, um, we always had to do good content. For our, uh, audience, right? And, uh, they could be our clients.

Djagmo: They could be people, you know, who are using a platform in some capacity. And all these people are aspiring. Either they're established entrepreneurs in the knowledge domain, or they're aspiring to become one. They're on their journey. Um, so there are a lot of information that we've tried to give them in as far as best practices are concerned, you know, how to grow their business and stuff like that.

Djagmo: But, uh, we happen to see that, you know, talking to somebody who's been there, who's done that, irrespective of their, you know, succeeded or failed. There's a lot of insights that we were able to get during one of the conversation. We thought, you know, why not make it into a podcast if the guests are willing?

Djagmo: And through this conversation, you know, uh, A lot of value comes out, uh, for the people who are aspiring to, you know, it could be teachers who are working for somebody else. It could be trainers, you know, for them to have their own knowledge business. What does it take? What are the ups and downs people have gone through?

Djagmo: What dos and don'ts and, uh, this, uh, does not intend to only help people get into the business. Probably this could also show some people that, Hey, you know what, this is not for you. Uh, it could also save them from getting into it. So that is also a value. That's how we see it. And what is in, uh, for the guests that are coming in, it is, you know, it could help them with their visibility or, you know, little bit of distribution and publicity and branding.

Djagmo: And this also happens to be a content for you, Matthew, if you want to use in the future. So this is why, uh, the, the, the why and how will the knowledge entrepreneurship, uh, And, um, so in that regard, I thought, uh, you know, you could be, uh, a very good addition, uh, of guests to our show. And, uh, that's how I reached out to you.

Djagmo: And once again, thank you so much for accepting this invitation. Thank you. Uh, so Matthew, I'll start off with a very light question, but a very open question. Uh, just, you know, this is gonna be a little personal one because, uh, listeners, it's nice for them to know little bit of the person that they're talking to before you get into the technicalities.

Djagmo: And, uh, this can help connect. So, uh, Matthew, I know you, uh, little bit, but even, uh, I would like to get to know a little bit more. So if you can just, uh, walk us through your journey, uh, on a high level, um, until this point, uh, in a personal, uh, way, you know, that'll be great, uh, way to start off.

Mathew: Sure. Uh, you see, I never planned my career per se.

Mathew: Uh, I just went with the flow and, uh, Have it have reached places where I thought I would never have reached. But that's what I've always kind of, uh, advocated to a lot of people that I deal with as well. I mean, you really cannot plan for your future as much as you may want to do it. There's always going to be some detours, and you've gotta be open to be adaptable and agile in taking your calls as in when you reach the spot that you find yourself in.

Mathew: So growing up, I always wanted to be an engineer, not because I fancy being an engineer, because the only two professions I had heard of in my family was someone's an engineer, someone's a doctor. You know, I, my my time was way back as you would have, uh, judged by now. So growing up that was the only thing.

Mathew: And then secondly, being a teacher's son wasn't helping my course because again, you know, teachers have their own ambitions and things like that, but I got the biggest shock of my life when I couldn't even get a first class in my 10th standard. So the entire equation changed, wanting to be an engineering student, having taken the admission forms from top science colleges in Bombay and getting a percentage, which if I had got taken that mark sheet and gone to the, uh, security guard, even, he would not have entertained me, entertained me anywhere close to him.

Mathew: Forget about entering the gate. So commerce became my second choice, or my only choice I had at that point in time. Completed my graduation, didn't know what to do again. So thought I'll do mba. So I wrote the common written test in Bombay, applied for group discussion in a couple of colleges. Everywhere I went, I wouldn't speak because I could hardly speak.

Mathew: You know, I had never taken, uh, the stage in school or college. So I would sit and I would be overwhelmed by the people around me. And, uh, at the end of the day, I realized that going for a group discussion and not opening your mouth didn't sell my cost. One, I was low on confidence. I was an introvert and I hardly read newspapers or books.

Mathew: I never was into that habit of reading at that point in time. So at one place it was, the topic was brain drain. No, I didn't even understand the topic before everybody started going far against, for, against, I was like, uh, spectator in a tennis match. Where am I? Finally, the moderator said, you know, number seven, you haven't spoken a word through the conversation or through the discussion.

Mathew: Why don't you give the closing remarks? I stood up and gave the closing remarks, and at that, at the end, I could see that he was pretty impressed. He said, thank you very much. That was a good job. It sounded more like a vote of thanks. So there. Ended my MBA journey. I knew I couldn't make it. Met a friend of mine and I asked him, what would you do?

Mathew: What was, what wa what are you doing? And he told me, you know what I'm doing chartered accountancy. My first question was, do they have group discussion? And he said, no. So I joined chartered accountancy. He said, it's just three years. Do your article ship, write your exams. But then for me, first attempt, second attempt, third attempt, fourth attempt didn't work at all.

Mathew: Finally, I told my dad, the CA three is not my cup of tea. And he said, so I said, now how do you argue with, so I said, so I want to quit. But he said, give one more attempt. And kind of speaking, he threw me out of the house. Technically speaking, he got me admissions in the students Y M C A in Bombay. That's when I really realized how people study for ca because the people I looked around me were all with their books day in and day out.

Mathew: Right. And those days we didn't have internet. No Facebook, no Insta, no. Nothing, you know, for that matter. Yeah. So I had books for company in the morning and in the evenings for company I had bedbugs, so I was just studying at that point in time. The two years that I was there, I completed my charter accountancy and my cost accountancy, and then I got into Deloitte in Bombay, Deloitte.

Mathew: Eventually, uh, while in Deloitte, I got an opportunity to go to Ernston Young. I got a job offer from Ernst and Young in Saudi Arabia, but they've selected me at a level, which was one notch below the one I had in Deloitte. Mm-hmm. When I checked with them, I said, why do you, why don't you gimme the same position?

Mathew: They said, no, Indian Chartered accountants are appointed at this level. If you're a U S C P A, you get this level, the higher level. Mm-hmm. I asked them, what is U S C P A? And they explained to me, this is what it is. No, I didn't take up that job, but that day I decided if I ever get a chance, I'm going to complete U S C P A.

Mathew: Right. I continued my journey in, uh, In, uh, Deloitte and Deloitte sent me on secondment to Deloitte in Qatar. So while I was in Qatar, I did the audit. When I completed my stint, I got a job in one of the companies that I had audited. So that be that way. Began my international journey, worked there for eight years, went to California, wrote my c p, and cleared my cpa.

Mathew: Then I moved from that construction company to another company called, uh, uh, you know, a United Arab Shipping Company, which was in the, which was in Kuwait, and it was owned by six governments. Wow. So again, I had to travel a lot on my job. Went to 30 plus countries free of cost at company's cost, I should say.

Mathew: But while I was there, I also did chartered, I also did certified internal auditor and certificate and controlled self-assessment. Okay. Then my company, after being there for six years, they moved me to another, uh, role and said, you, we need to set up the risk management department. Mm. So then I was, uh, kind of put in charge of.

Mathew: Establishing the risk management department. Worked with, uh, a big four in Singapore and we set up the department. I ran that for a year, and then I moved back to India. So while I was doing the risk management, I again tried to supplement what I didn't know in job with a degree, and I got a r m. Then I came back to India.

Mathew: I was heading the internal audit of a Scottish uh, company. It's a mnc, a very old company. I headed the internal audit and around five to six years back, I quit corporate. And, uh, you know, wanted to spend a little more time with youngsters wanting to tell them about the mind and how the mind works because I'm a, I got to learn about the mind while I was doing all these stints.

Mathew: Right. Uh, then I moved from corporate. Uh, while I was planning to get into personal development, there was an opportunity which came up in academics and therefore I joined Christ University as the, as a faculty. And, uh, that's where I am today. So wherever I've gone, I've tried to compliment myself with, uh, educational qualifications.

Mathew: It was very later in life that I realized that more than educational qualifications and the alphabets that you have after your name, it's uh, it's something more that, you know, that's more important for us to be successful. And I believe that communication skills is something that's going to take. As one notch about, and I was an introvert.

Mathew: Like I told you before, I would never, ever speak, I would never give presentation because I had a phobia of speaking. So started working on communications, and today I go around, uh, I go to schools and colleges and tell students that degrees is one thing, you know, it doesn't matter. I tell them, no matter what job you have in life, your success will be determined only 5% by your educational qualification, 15% by your experience.

Mathew: 80% is the X factor. And that X factor is your comradery, teamwork, and communications to a huge, large, I mean, to a huge extent. So I, I try to encourage youngsters today to work beyond their academics. Not just getting good grades, but being very wholesome in their, uh, endeavors. Uh, so that's been my, you know, long journey or I should say in a very, you know, in a brief, that's where I have, that's how life has, you know, taken me.

Mathew: And here I am talking to you.

Djagmo: That is great, Matthew. Quite a journey. But, uh, I mean, uh, You don't come across like you were an introvert or something. Absolutely not. I mean that too. Uh, the story that you spoke about, your group discussion thing in the MBA interview. Well, yeah, I think, um, you, so, okay now talking about, uh, the group discussion thing, even after that, you don't seem to have done anything drastic.

Djagmo: You weren't like, you know what, I'm gonna come back, communicate better, clear the group discussion. You pretty much went away. You got into something that doesn't need as much communication. Maybe, you know, I see most of the auditors buried, you know, and doing numbers and excellent stuff like that. So where exactly did the communication thing, uh, you know, come into your life again, because you must have been busy working in, in the ca field in Deloitte and all those things.

Djagmo: Right? Right.

Mathew: So I'll take you back to the time when I was 14. Okay. And there was an, uh, competition, which my, uh, you know, which my father asked me to participate in. Now, in my very first competition, it was an all Bombay competition. I happened to secure the first price. Now, because of that, my dad pushed me into more such competitions.

Mathew: So in my very second competition, I spoke less and I danced more. Shifting weight from one leg to the other. I could feel the nervousness in my next one. Halfway through my speech, I blanked out and in yet the next one that I took, I barely started and I blanked out. Kind of felt miserable at that point in time, not age 14.

Mathew: To have gone through that stage and having people laugh at you, I just said, this is too much. And I told my dad, I looked him in the eye and said, I'm never ever going to step on stage. But, sorry, what competition was it? This was an interchurch allocution competition. The first one that I won. Okay. And after that, uh, you know, it was an all Bombay I competition.

Mathew: So, uh, the first one was good. It was like scoring a double century in your very first outing and then getting out on ducks in the next three, and you're shattered. I mean, you just don't want to do it. So I told my dad, I'm not going to do that, and he never forced me after that. Okay. 25 years, I never, ever stuck on stage.

Mathew: Okay? Okay. Through my college, through my work, I would shy away from ever speaking because there was that phobia behind me. Hmm. Then came a time when I was doing the internal audit as an in charge auditor. There was an audit where we found out some discrepancies, some practices, which should not have happened.

Mathew: And that created kind of, you know, when you're an internal auditor and you find some practices that are not, uh, to the mark and not just in, in, in, you know, in, it was quite, uh, some serious findings. So I had to stand before the audit committee and like I told you, the country, the company was owned by six governments.

Mathew: So you had, so you had board of directors from different countries and the audit committee where all these top-notch government officials, I stand to make the presentation. I stood to make the presentation and my mind sat right back. I knew the audit, like the back of my palm I had heard, but when it mattered most, when I had to make my points to the people who really could.

Mathew: Uh, you know, wanted to hear it, or who the people who could, who knew whether you had done the work or not. I f I fell flat on my face. Mm. My boss took over. Okay? And to make things worse, I was sitting when he was ma doing the presentation, and I knew everything that he was saying, but I couldn't speak.

Mathew: Right? I ended that presentation feeling really miserable. And the quote that I told you was something that I received from a friend at that point in time. He said, no matter what job you have in life, your success will be determined only 5% by your educational qualification. 15% by your experience. 80% is your communication skill.

Mathew: That's what it read at that point in time. And it was like, you know, adding, uh, insult to injury. And that's when I realized that honestly speaking, there's more to life than just gathering degrees. You may think that all these degrees will hold you in good stead. It will until such time that you've got to make a presentation or you got to articulate something in front of people.

Mathew: Right? And, uh, that's when I made a conscious decision of working on my communication skills and then, you know, joining some, uh, speaking clubs and things like that. And then it just, uh, I'm still a baby when it comes to that, but I'm practicing and I'm, uh, learning, I should say. I've decided to be a lifelong learner in this art called public speaking.

Djagmo: Great. Matthew. I mean, uh, to start from there, probably, you know, uh, what. You missed in the group discussion time in mba. You started it off, uh, during this time. That's right. Yeah. That's great. Okay, so Matthew, from what I know you, um, I, I met you when you were, uh, running this company called Praxis. And uh, I reached out to you, uh, thinking that okay, um, Matthew runs this education company, you know, where he teaches, and then, you know, uh, I could probably pick his brain as to, uh, how and the nitty of the.

Djagmo: Education business and anything that you could, uh, share. But uh, that is also when we were talking about, uh, your journey into helping people with their personal development. Right. Lot of other things, like you said, everything around the education to make somebody a wholesome thing, uh, I mean wholesome person.

Djagmo: So, um, and then we decided that this is what you are focusing mainly on. And um, I thought, okay, this is also pretty much a knowledge entrepreneurial journey that you're on. And I think, uh, to me what I thought was, this is even wholesome, right? Because, uh, the Praxis thing you were teaching finance and stuff.

Djagmo: Yeah. But, uh, I don't know. The cas that I see around me are pretty, I don't know. They're working all the time. They don't socialize enough and, uh, especially during some months, they're even busy. They work like 14 hours, 16 hours a day. It's pretty crazy. And, um, to see you in this field was like amazing. And I've seen a lot of videos of yours on your, uh, Instagram page and your LinkedIn post pretty much the same.

Djagmo: So I happen to, uh, you know, kind of, uh, notice a couple of interesting things. Uh, I just was curious about this particular thing, one of your IG posts, right? It read, uh, goal, goal creation is an art and the starting point shouldn't be where you are, but where you'd like to be. This is where I was a little confused, but I mean, uh, how can you, uh, uh, how can your starting point be where you'd like to be?

Djagmo: You can only be where you are right now, right?

Mathew: Yes. See, uh, you and I have reached where we are because of the circumstances that we have experienced through our lives, right? So you are at a particular place because you're looking back and you and I maybe looking back and we getting caught up in what we already know. For example, if I have five or six or seven degrees, or let's say, you know, all the certifications that I have, automatically, I would say that I'm be, I'm better doing finance and accounting than doing something where my real, my, my heart lies.

Mathew: Okay? So that's the mistake that most people make. You may be where you are, but you may not be where you would want to be. Mm-hmm. So the first question we ask ourselves is, where do I really want to be? If you've heard of Stephen Covey and the Seven Habits of the Highly Effective People, the first habit says Be proactive.

Mathew: The second habit says, begin with the end in mind. So you are speaking, you're starting with the end where you want to see yourself maybe a year, five years, 10 years from now. Now, just because something has brought you to where you are today doesn't mean that you lose sight of where you want to go, right?

Mathew: So there is a direction and destination. So you start with where you want to be maybe in a years time, five years time, 10 years time, and you work backward. So your circumstances may prevent you from doing that. The conditioning that you and I are exposed to, for example, maybe as growing, maybe while growing up, your father and my father told us it's better to be safe than sorry.

Mathew: Right? Don't bite more than you can chew. Get a government job and your life is set. Yep. Now all these things have gone and created a conditioning according to which you and I operate. So it's like an operating system. We are genetically an environmentally conditioned, all because of the things that we have.

Mathew: Heard while we were growing up and the people that we surrounded ourselves with. So maybe risk-taking didn't come naturally for us. Maybe doing something beyond or going beyond our comfort zone did not come naturally for us. So that's the reason I say you may be where you are, but there is a long journey from where you are to where you want to go.

Mathew: So don't disregard the point that you wear want to be in the future just because you don't have that degree, just because you don't have the money, just because you don't have the resources. At this point in time, let life be a very clean slate and start by using all the mental faculties and the muscles that you have.

Mathew: Now, I can go on and on on this topic because see if you, there are two ways to live. I mean, just to summarize everything that I said, there are two ways that you and I could live. One, right? We could live inside out or we could live outside in. Hmm. Now, if you're living outside in, it means you're saying, you know what?

Mathew: I'm Jack Mohan. I have done this. This is what my capabilities are. These are my skill sets. I will tie myself down to become something that my skillsets and my education has brought me so far. It means you're allowing your circumstances to dictate what you would like to do or what you can do, right? But if you break that barrier and you say, I'm going to live inside out, which means that you and I have got six mental faculties.

Mathew: Now we are not taught this in schools and colleges. We have perception, we have memory, we have intuition will, imagination. Now, when we do all, when we use all these faculties that we are, there's a power within us, which is far superior to any conditions or circumstance that is around us. Now, when you tap into that power, then everything become limit, becomes limitless.

Mathew: You become self-aware of the person that you are meant to be, and the person you are meant to be is not the person who you are today. So unless you take off those blinders and look forward to where you want to be and work backward, you know, chances are that you may be stuck, you may be in your comfort zone.

Mathew: Chances are that you may not take that risk. So that's what I'm trying to say. Decide what you want, because that's the first step. At Procta Gallagher Institute, we have a program which is called Thinking into Results, right? The whole idea of that is we don't think from results because if you think from results, and I would've said, I got just, I didn't even get a second class in my first, in my 10 standards.

Mathew: So I'm not bound to be a chartered accountant or all the 10 degrees or certifications that I have today. If I thought about failing in a group discussion, then I would've been tied to saying, you know what? It's not my cup of tea. I can't go into this particular field. But those are just history. You know, you can always change your history by deciding what you want to do and take your life in the direction that you want to take it.

Mathew: So that was the whole idea of that post. So don't let your present circumstances create a prison for you. Rather break free from that prison and see the glory that lies beyond what you're doing today.

Djagmo: Go ahead, Matthew. Wonderful. Uh, one question from what you said, you said, um, think what's the difference between thinking from results and thinking into results?

Djagmo: Is that, uh, am I going too deep into the thing, or, um, am I, you know, am I digressing? No,

Mathew: absolutely not. You're, that's a, that's a, that's a very valid question. Like thinking from results, it means taking your past as a precedent and thinking that you can only do those things that you have done. For example, let's say you are in sales, right?

Mathew: And let's say you've got, you've achieved 40% of your target in the first year, and you achieved 50% in the second year, and in the third year you go back to 40. So what has happened here is you have allowed the sales report to dictate what you can do. If somebody comes and tells you, you know what you should do 200% than what you're awarded, you would say, no, I've been a 40% all my life.

Mathew: Hmm. Right, right. For example, if you're a student, you go into a class and the teacher enters and they say, Jack Mohan, how much did you score in your previous year? For hypothetical reasons, let's say that you scored 45, right? And the teacher says you, you've got 45. Okay. At least try to get 50 this year.

Mathew: Why? She's looking at where you were and she's de deciding that you're capable to get a little five or 10 more than what you got last time. That's thinking from results. Now, if a teacher comes to you and says, you know what, Jack Mohan, I know that you got 45, but 45 is just, it only shows that your mind was, it only shows where your mind was during that exams.

Mathew: It doesn't show me anything about your true potential. When I look into your eyes, Jack Mohan, I know that you can get 90%, and if you put in a little more effort, you're going to get 95%. Now, what has she done? She's painted a picture of where you could be not completely ignoring where you came from. So that's what we are saying.

Mathew: You know, we should not type cash ourselves by saying, I came from here, therefore this is what I'm capable of getting. I got 40% of my sales, uh, targets. So this is, don't let your balance sheet, don't let your sales report, don't let your academic report dictate what you could do. That is only a representation of where your mind was at that point in time.

Mathew: That is no, by no means a representation of where you could go. So thinking into results is thinking from that end in mind. What is it that you really want? Have you really documented what you want? Do you have a blueprint for your life? The company that you work for has a vision, mission, purpose statement.

Mathew: What about you? And if you don't have that blueprint, then you are, you know, going everywhere, reaching nowhere. So that's what we say, have a goal in mind and start with the end in mind means work backwards. If you allow the past to dictate where you are going, then you know you're going to be stuck where you are and you will never be able to get the results that you hope to get.

Mathew: And that's what 97% of the people is what Earl 19 Gail said. He said, 97% of the people are like ships without rudders, subject to every shift in the wind or tide. He says they're hopelessly adrift, and they all hope that one day they will reach a rich and successful port. But you and I know that for every narrow harbor entrance, there's 1000 or 10,000 miles of rocky coastline.

Mathew: The chances of one making it into this narrow harbor is one in a thousand. But then there is the 3% of the people, these are the people who decide on a destination who charter course, and they come up with measures and they reach one port after another, and they accomplish far more in a shorter duration of time than the others would ever imagine.

Mathew: So 97% of the people, his, his statistical 19 Ill, is a personal development guru. I read a lot about him, I study about him. So he says that most of us do not think from think into results, we think from results, and we allow our balance sheets and sales reports to dictate where we are going.

Djagmo: Thank you, uh, for that, Matthew.

Djagmo: Yeah. Made, makes a lot of sense. Uh, and, uh, great thing to, uh, be listening to. Uh, when the week is ending. The week is about to start tomorrow. Um, wonderful. So Matthew, uh, there, I thought, you know, I'll start with this question, uh, because, um, as a symbolic thing, you know, where we are also starting of the podcast, like, you know, of course we spoke a lot, but then, you know, I thought, uh, this is gonna be in the starting part of the podcast, but I'd like to, you know, take a step back and go into the journey that you spoke about.

Djagmo: And you said while you were, uh, doing internal audit, you were also involved with mind related topics and you were, you know, your interests were also there. You were, you know, working on things that dealt with the mind. Um, I'm gonna ask you, uh, was this just, um, thing that you picked up to do something else apart from work?

Djagmo: Or did something happen that triggered you into that?

Mathew: I do not know whether you've been audited, ever. But, uh, you know, if you have experienced some internal auditors who've come and asked you what you do and then give you a report, they're not the most fan seeded commodity in the corporate circle. Okay? So when I would go around telling people, understanding from them the systems that they operate under, and then get into areas that they do day in and day out, sometimes you get asked the question, how do you know I've been doing this for the past 20 years?

Mathew: And then finally, you know, you make your observations, you give recommendations. So it's not always that, uh, it's very important role that they do. But at the same time, you may not be the low, most liked commodity in your corporate. And that does not necessarily go for, uh, an internal auditor. Sometimes it could even go for your hr, it could go for accounts, it could go for anyone.

Mathew: So there are days, some days when you feel that, you know, you could do much more than what you are doing currently, and you feel that you need to. Stretch your hands and stretch your arms and find out something more that excites you. I was wondering going through these, uh, you know, my males and I happened to see a male from Bob Proctor that read, tell me what you want and I will help you get it.

Mathew: Okay. Now that statement was really hard hitting and down. When you read in details in fine print, it says, join me in my 13 month coaching program. I was at Dubai at that point in time. Okay? Join me for my 13 month corporate, uh, training program while I decided I will join in. I consulted my better half and we said yes, why not?

Mathew: So I went in for that 13 month coaching program. It was online, but I learned so much during those 13 months that I realized that there's much more to life than just, you know, your accounts and operations and the irregular thing that you do. It was Jim Ron who had once said, if you work on your job, you'll make a living, but if you work on yourself, you'll make a fortune.

Mathew: So the things that I learned during those 13 months was something, uh, that really resonated with me. And I thought, many of the people I know, my friends, the other people that I come in contact with need to learn a little more about this. So that's how the journey started about understanding your own self.

Mathew: When we buy something from a, from a supermarket or when we buy from the electronic store, we ask them for the user manual. And then you go through the user manual to ensure that you're doing everything in the right way. But sometimes what happens is you do not know how your user manual works, right? And when you do not know your own mo modus opera, Brandi, for all you know, you may be living a life that is suboptimal.

Mathew: And that's what I learned. And that's, uh, the way it all started. Jeff Mohan.

Djagmo: Got it. Matthew. So, uh, You were already, you know, looking into mind related things and you wanted something. And that's exactly, you know, you might have subscribed to Bob Proctor and that's how he reached out. So this journey is one thing, but, um, you know, you told that, uh, you saw this email where he says, uh, tell me what you want and I'll help you get it on those lines.

Djagmo: Yes. I may not, I may be a little off. Yeah, yeah. Correct. You're right. So the, uh, that means you are saying that, uh, you definitely were doing your job, but you also wanted something else. Uh, you were, uh, not a hundred percent satisfied with what you were doing, and that is how it led to this journey. Yes, that's right.

Djagmo: And, uh, it was not with an intention of getting trained and becoming a trainer or, you know, a coach. Nothing. You just joined just for your own personal sake.

Mathew: That's right. That's right. So I joined, uh, that was way back in 2012. Okay. I joined, went through these 13 months of program, and then life just continued.

Mathew: I kept doing all the jobs that I was doing while at the same time I was studying because I wanted to. Consume this material for myself and then just take it out to the people whom I know. You know, if you come across somebody who thinks they need help, I would do that. Even when I moved into academics, I would help some of the students who I thought needed some kind of handholding with the programs that I had learned, right?

Mathew: It was somewhere in 2020 when I thought, why not take it to a new level now? Okay, why not do a little more than what I'm currently doing? So that's when I transitioned from just being a student to being a consultant for the Proctor Gallagher Institute and now, you know, train people and coach people on the different programs that we have and help them see something more in themselves that they would've other seen, otherwise seen.

Mathew: So that's been the journey. So today I'm a consultant for the Proctor Gallagher Institute, and we have a lot of programs that I help people with.

Djagmo: Okay. And you're also, uh, doing your, uh, finance thing, the accounts thing, full-time? Oh,

Mathew: yes. I'm, I'm a faculty, so that takes a lot of my time. In fact, uh, I spend a lot of my time doing that, uh, at the university, and it's not an easy task to teach, uh, teenagers these days.

Mathew: So a lot of preparation goes into that, and I would ha, I would've loved to spend a lot more time in what I am doing, like what I'm saying right now. But, uh, I have to balance both together, and I'm quite happy the way it is. I tell people, you must be happy, but at the same time, you must be dissatisfied because I, I come from the school that says that we are all meant to expand and express ourselves.

Mathew: So the version that you will become tomorrow is, should be a little better than what you are today. So be happy, but at the same time, be happily dissatisfied. Now, that does not mean that you brewed about what you already have. Be grateful for what you have, but at the same time, know that you could be more, do more, have more.

Mathew: And if you have all these things, you could give more for the better of betterment of the society.

Djagmo: Go on, Matthew. Great. Uh, but you're not into the auditing stuff anymore. You're not practicing it anymore? No, I'm not practicing. You're, uh,

Mathew: done with that. Yes. Yes. So I'm not as, not likable that I, that I, that I wa that I used to be once upon a time.

Mathew: So you can be, you can be free with me. You know, don't call me an internal auditor. Those are, those days are gone now, those

Djagmo: days. Yeah. Good. Yeah, I can, I, I can also see that you light up when you're talking about

Mathew: Yeah, yeah. But, but I, I, I'm truly grateful for the time that I had. I enjoyed the fact that I was an internal auditor.

Mathew: Got, would travel a lot, so I would be, I would be, you know, expressing a little, I would, I would not be showing my true color if I said it was difficult. Yes, it was difficult, but at the same time, I'm really, really, really, really grateful for the opportunity that came my way. And while I was doing my job, I thoroughly enjoyed it, meeting really good people, traveling to different countries.

Mathew: So it was, it was a wonderful experience.

Djagmo: Yeah, traveling 35 countries on work. I think that is something cool. You can, yeah, this makes up for the work. Yes, absolutely. So, Matthew, I'm gonna ask you a question here, uh, that could possibly help, uh, you know, it could be of value to the listeners, uh, not that what we are already speaking is not, but this is even more specific.

Djagmo: Uh, so you weren't a teacher or a trainer, you were an auditor, you know, but then you made this transition to teaching. So, uh, how was it, was it like easy? Did you have to work on it? Uh, or did your job previously, your jobs also entailed, you know, teaching. So how did you deal with that whole, from auditor to

Mathew: teacher?

Mathew: Well, my only experience with teachers are the fact that my mom was a teacher. Right. I had no teaching experience and I would never, ever have dreamt of becoming a teacher. Even now when I tell my school and college friends that I'm a teacher, you know, they some somehow laugh at the fact that I ended up doing what I'm doing.

Mathew: Like you, like I said, I wasn't the smartest guy in town, in class or whatever. So it takes a lot of effort when you want to transition from whatever you're doing into something completely different now, how does that happen? I don't think any transition is easy. There's a lot of uncertainties when you go into that space and you never know where you are headed towards.

Mathew: Right? Especially when you have a cushy job and having to jump from that job where everything is going well for you. Most people would ask you, why rock the boat? And I got that question a lot and I still get asked by my daughter and my son, why did you have to leave Gulf and come back to India when life was so good there?

Mathew: Well, that answer I still don't have. It's just that sometimes you want to come back home and my wife and I decided that we'll start our journey once again. So that support was always there. So that's, that's one part which is I think 80% is taken care of when you have that kind of support. Now the remaining 20% is you have to take the risk.

Mathew: You know, it was, I think, uh, Richard Bar who once said, when you reach the edge of all the light you have and step into the darkness of the unknown, you must believe that one of the two things will happen. Either you will find something solid to step on, or you will be taught to fly. So there is a lot of uncertainty and I wasn't teacher material at all, so it was scary.

Mathew: I remember the first time I went to class, seeing all the youngsters, fresh blood. It's completely different than what it used to be, once upon a time. Yeah. So nowadays you can't go into a class without your preparation. So I spent a lot of time preparing, even though I may have. You know, taught that subject many times I still have to go and do my preparations on a daily basis to be able to have the confidence to go back into the class.

Mathew: So right, to answer your question first, transition isn't easy. Second transitions are not taken. You know, you can never take a transition for granted because you never know what you, you know, you could fall flat on your face, but you will get up. But at the end of the day, you'll learn something. Now, there are a couple of things why people don't take that big leap of faith, and I would like to summarize that as saying three things that you need to do.

Mathew: First of all, you need to shut up. In other words, you need to shut those voices in your head that tell you you don't measure up. You know, it's risky whenever you are going to make a transition. There are people who love you that are going to tell you, you know what? Why? Why do you want to do that? Why do you just not continue with what you are doing?

Mathew: What you're good at? You've studied so much all your life to get all the degrees that you wanted. Why is it that this juncture of your life, you want to take that risk? Why do you want to take that leap? So there'll be people around you who mean best for you. I mean, they want you to succeed. And that's the reason they're telling you that.

Mathew: So first of all, and your own voices is going to play on your head and play in your head, dance in your head and say, you know what? Don't do that. And that's natural for us. So the first thing is we need to shut those voices in our head. Secondly, we need to show up. Even though you know that you may fall, you have to take the risk of showing up.

Mathew: So what? Somebody may like you, somebody may not like you, but life is not a popularity contest. You're not here to win a contest of popularity, right? You've gotta take the risk. You've gotta back yourself up. So you've gotta show up. And either of the two things could happen. You could either fail or you could learn, you know?

Mathew: Oh, I mean, I'm sorry. You could either succeed or you could learn there's no such thing as failure. Failure, yeah. So you, if you succeed, excellent. If you make the cut, excellent. If you don't, at least you have learned, at least you've tried something tomorrow you don't feel bad about not having tried something that you thought could have worked or would have worked, right?

Mathew: So once you shut those voices and once you show up, the next thing is stepping up your game. Once you get that little experience, then it's all about working on your own self and improvising day in and day out. Again, that goes back to where is it that you want to go. Like I said earlier, Jack Mohan begin with the end in mind.

Mathew: When you know that your D direction and destination is to a particular place, you'll work on yourself to ensure that you're getting the skills that's required in order to be able to reach there. So then you become a lifelong learner. You know that you're taking baby steps on a daily basis. So that one day, hopefully you'll reach that summit.

Mathew: So you've got to show up. First thing is you need to shut those voices. You need to show up because life is all about, you know, life is taking attendance. You need to show up to say, you know what, I'm showing up. And finally, once all those things happen, you need to step up your game slowly at steadily.

Mathew: You need to take the next leap of faith and the next leap of faith. And sooner than later, you'll either fly or you'll be taught to fly.

Djagmo: Great. And, uh, the 13 month program that you did in 2012, I'm, I, uh, that is before you made the transition to teaching.

Mathew: Oh, yes, yes. I made my transition into teaching only in 2017.

Mathew: After 2012, uh, I continued with my job. Then somewhere in 2015, I, you know, I came in, sorry, in somewhere in 20, uh, 13, I came to India. Hmm. I was in a job for two years. I was heading the internal audit of, uh, M N C. Right. And then it was around 20 16, 17 that I transitioned from corporate to academia.

Djagmo: Okay.

Djagmo: The reason I asked you this, Matthew, was that, you know, you definitely wanted something. You were working, you had a very cushy job. As you said, everything was fine, but then you probably wanted something else, and that's what triggered you to, you know, join the program. And so, um, after that, did that program kind of help you, uh, get what you wanted and, uh, in, in, in fact, if you did not even know what you wanted, did it help you to figure out what you wanted?

Djagmo: And does that connect with the whole teaching transition?

Mathew: Well, what that program taught me was, or what I understood is I got a little more awareness of the person, you know, of the level of awareness increased. First of all, one of the things that I understood that all of us need to have is something called the purpose, vision, and goal.

Mathew: Now, companies may have a per, you know, a vision mission statement, like I said, but what is our purpose here? Have we taken down the time to even decide to even understand? Where are we going? Why am I planted on the face of the earth? Now, you and I and everyone around us who's going to hear this is planted on this planet for a particular purpose, but do we take the time even to understand where am I going with this?

Mathew: Why am I here? So that's the first thing that we need to understand. So the first answer is purpose. Why am I here? The second thing is about vision. Vision is what do I really want? What kind of a flat do I want to live in? What kind of a house do I want to live in? Or what kind of a car do I want to drive?

Mathew: What is it that I really want to do? Which charities do I want to be involved with? What do I really want in life or want out of life? That's the second bit. So once you transition from your purpose and you decide what you really want out of life, then you come to the third bit, uh, which is, how do I get it?

Mathew: So the third bit is how do I get the things that I really want? And that's what we call goals. So you have your purpose, which is the why am I here? Then you have the vision. What do I really want? And finally, you have the how. How do I get it? Which is your goals. Now you don't need to know how you will get most of the things that you want.

Mathew: If you start by saying, how will I get that? Then that will be the bigger question that's playing in your mind, and that will take you off guard or take you off track where you really want to go. So how is the last bit? Initially, you just need to understand, why am I here? Why am I planted here? What are the skills?

Mathew: What are the talents? What are the gifts that God has given me? Somebody had one said, God's gift to you is more talent and ability than you will ever have that you will ever need, but your gift to G God is to develop and utilize as much of that talent and ability as you can in this lifetime. Yeah, so we all have that gifts and talents, but why are we here?

Mathew: That's the first question. Secondly, what do? What is it that we really want? So we prepare a menu card. Now, you and I may want some things, but do we really write it down? Are we really going after it? Do we have a blueprint for our lives? That's one thing I learned from that program. The second thing I learned is we all have mental muscles, which.

Mathew: You know, we have not been taught about. And those mental muscles is something like I mentioned earlier, you have will, you have intuition, you have perception, you have reasoning, you have imagination. You have memory. Now. Unless somebody tells you about this, you would not know and you may not use these mental muscles.

Mathew: Yeah. And then like Steve Jobs said, you know, what is the richest place in town? He said the richest place in town is a graveyard because most people take their talents, take their abilities with them to the grave. That's because you and I do not know the mental muscles that we have, the mental faculties that we have been blessed with.

Mathew: So we don't use them. And if you don't use them, you lose them. Yeah. And when you don't. So I've learned about those mental faculties. I've learned about the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. Napoleon Hill said, what your mind can conceive in your heart believe you can achieve. So a lot of things came out of that program, which was.

Mathew: Completely different than what I had been studying for my ca or my I C W or my C P A or my CIA, or C C S A and all the other degrees that I have been chasing. Once upon a time. What I started to learn in the mind space was completely different, and that somehow caught my attention. I said this, this is something which is far more important for me to even apply the information that I get from my degrees.

Mathew: So that's what, uh, you know, held me and that's what, that's why I decided to be a student of mental science for as long as I can be.

Djagmo: Got it. Matthew. It's great. I mean, um, mental sciences, the mind and everything because, um, what you can do, uh, from whatever you've told so far, right? Say for example, we all know about memory, imagination and all those things, but then you are talking about these things as tools that you can use to kind of manifest whatever you want and stuff like that.

Djagmo: So that is great. And, uh, so I would probably, you know, put it like this. Um, you started, this is one aspect of what you're doing, the mental science, but then before that you started teaching, uh, in the, you know, the finance topics or the accounts topics. And so does that have any connection with what you're doing now, uh, from, you know, the.

Djagmo: Mental program that you're doing with people, uh, is that again, helping you in a certain way or these two are two different parts? Or do you apply this in your teaching, uh, is what I'm trying to really ask. Especially for the students, right?

Mathew: Yes. See this, what you've learned about mental science will be applied anywhere and everywhere because then you begin to understand who you are.

Mathew: We are not physical beings with a spiritual existence. We are spiritual beings with a physical existence. So what, what I mean by that is then your borders are limitless. So if somebody comes and asks you, can you do it? You have the confidence now to say, yes, I can do it. If I don't do, if I do not know how to do it, I'll find a way to do it.

Mathew: So everything you do, the base is the same, right? Because you have a conscious mind, you have a subconscious mind, and you have your goals, you have your visions. You're using that now, even if it's for teaching, you're not going to just do a same. Uh, you know the teach the same thing day in and day out.

Mathew: You're going to try something new. You're not going to help your students understand things a little better. In your class. You've gotta tell your students that, you know what? It's okay to fail. Now when you see people around you, everybody's getting, let's say 99, 98, and they come in, they give a professional exams, and the very first exam they give, they fail.

Mathew: Now what do you tell them? They've never been used to failing because they've always been getting ass and they've been getting the first pranks, and they get the 90 eights and the 90 nines, and suddenly when failure hits, it hits like a Thunderbird. Yeah. Now you have to have the kind of understanding to tell them, look, it's okay.

Mathew: And sometimes you need to explain these concepts to them saying that it's okay to fail, but it's not okay to quit. And your understanding of how you operate and how they operate helps you to give them solutions that otherwise may not have been possible. For example, if you go to a class and you see the class is talking.

Mathew: Now, if I tell them, take out your books, whoever the student is, let's say Student X, take out your book and write 500 times, I will not talk in class tomorrow. Something that I have been, I have experienced growing up, but now I know that that's not going to work because that's not the way things work.

Mathew: Yeah, because now I understand that you have got to understand and talk to them. Why are they talking? You can't just treat the symptoms without going to the cause. So even if a student has misbehaved or somebody in your company has misbehaved, or you don't understand why some people behave the way they behave now you know that it's the symptoms that you're looking at.

Mathew: So you can't punish somebody. You can't judge somebody. Purely by what they're doing currently. You need to go one step below and say, what is the cost? What is the cost that's triggering this? So all that you apply in your real life, whether it's in your corporate or whether it's in your academy, or whether it's at your home, when you deal with teenage children, you now understand that everybody operates in a very unique manner and they have their own mental muscles that they have developed.

Mathew: So I think what I'm doing in the mind space is applicable anywhere and everywhere. For example, when you go into a company and you tell them, if you go into a company and they ask you, you know what? We are not doing very well in this particular area, could you help us? Again? What you're going to you tell them is about goal settings and things like that.

Mathew: But what is the underlying cause is people, they don't behave the way they are supposed to behave because of some inherent characteristics. And when you help them understand why they operate the way they operate, things could change. So what I believe is the thing about mine is very much applicable for you and me as we speak today.

Mathew: Right. And everything about that is, you know, one level, this is the foundation of every aspect of life Industry academy or what you are doing, what I am doing and everything else are gradients that we add about that. So if the foundation, if the values are weak, and if we don't understand how you and I operate for all, you know, if there is, let's say, you know, thousand people have lost their job, 4,000 people are fired, everything will come falling down one day if you rely only on the things that were superficially built about the foundation.

Mathew: But if the foundation is great, then you have the persistence, you have the resistance, you have the resilience to carry on knowing that who you really are.

Djagmo: Right? No, yeah. I mean, I had no doubts about, uh, applying this, uh, you know, the whole mind space can be applied to anything. Yeah. Got it. But, you know, I was interested and I, I, I think you touched upon it as well when you told, you know, how you address your students and how you, um, think about.

Djagmo: Why they're doing what they're doing as a teacher, especially right when you're, uh, as you said yourself, when you're facing a large number of students and today's, uh, distractions are like unreal, like, you know, the cell phones and everything and things are changing. Today's youngsters are very different, uh, from the way they speak, the way they do certain things.

Djagmo: It could also, you know, create a gap between somebody who's teaching. And this question I specifically asked because as a knowledge entrepreneur, I think there are very few people who just invest money and start a school or start an academic or something. But a lot of them that have met, they start off by teaching and then they expand.

Djagmo: So when they teach is when there are two things to teaching. One is the expertise on the topic that you're teaching about. Second one is the way you communicate and connect with your students. To deliver the expertise that you've developed. So I think, uh, for you, having experienced this mind space thing, delivering the content to the students by connecting with them must be way better than normal, uh, than people who do not probably have an understanding of how the mind works.

Djagmo: So that is what I was trying to touch upon Matthew, and, uh, yes, you did acknowledge, uh, saying that it definitely does help, uh, for you. Um, Matthew, I'd just like to, you know, uh, ask you one example where, you know, you've had to kind of apply the thing that you know about the mind space with a student of yours.

Djagmo: You know, maybe a student has had a self-doubt or you know, or you know, some problem. You see a talented student who's wasting it away in the class. Do you go to the extent of, you know, connecting with them, talking to them and stuff like that? Or is it extremely professional where you're teaching.

Mathew: See, that's a little tricky aspect when you look at it now. You can't barge into somebody else's space and say, I know that you're low on confidence. I know that you are, uh, not scoring well, I have a pill for your ill. Well, I don't think that's the right approach because everybody could have their own space and they don't want to be told what is supposed to be told.

Mathew: So I've tried it in the past, but it doesn't work right now. I, I, I would prefer that somebody comes and tells me, so this is what my issue is. Can you help me with that? And what we do at that point in time is not just tell that this is what you're supposed to do. You don't become holier than hol and give them suggestions, right?

Mathew: You can do it with your very close ones. But that's also something I would like to restrain. I don't do so much, but I, I would like to restrain a little more than what I do right now because I think everybody has solutions. To what the problem they're facing. It's whether they're able to sit down, drop down into the basics of it and find a solution.

Mathew: So not necessarily that I would step and do, uh, you know, go into somebody's space and say, I would help you, but at the same time, I have done it. And there are people who come in day in and day out and ask you a lot of my talk, a lot of my time when I'm at, uh, the campus, I have people coming, students coming and talking to me.

Mathew: Now, they could be a myriad of problems and myriad of challenges that they're facing. Now, those challenges, how do we address them? Some of them may be related to studies. Some of them may be related to choosing a career. Some of them may related to saying, I have five internship opportunities. Which one should I choose?

Mathew: Now, at times it becomes difficult for you to even answer them because you do not know them at a one-on-one level. When you have hundred students, 70 students in your class, you may have met them, but still student. When they come to you, you've got to kind of learn and understand where they are going. And understand from them what is it that they're really looking at and trying to ask them questions so that they could come out with a little more about themselves and about a solution.

Mathew: So sometimes the whole idea is asking them a little more questions, prodding them a little more, and for all, you know, they go back thinking that, you know what? I've thought a little more than what I had earlier thought. So you give them some tools and techniques, but I think you've got to stop a little far from telling them this is what you're supposed to do.

Mathew: Right. So that is, that is the fine line that we need to draw. And, uh, that's something that I, I try to do. And every, anything, you know, if somebody goes and gives you advice for free, it doesn't value, you know, they don't value it as much this time. So if somebody comes and asks me if, ask for it, then definitely I'm more than happy to help.

Mathew: But other than that, it is, uh, try not to, try not to go and preach, rather practice, and they will learn from what you are saying. And so it's best to walk the talk rather than just walking, just talking the talk.

Djagmo: Yeah. Lead by example. Yeah. Yeah. Makes uh, sense. Yeah. I mean, volunteering and then going and talking about these things may not work really well.

Djagmo: Yeah. But I was curious, you know, uh, having, you know, when you know something, it's also difficult to not go and tell something to somebody, but there's a fine line, you know, there's a balance that you maintain in communicating just as much as required that might probably push them to come and inquire more about that with

Mathew: you, right?

Mathew: No, to answer that question, yes, I do go to classes. I do go to schools. I do go to corporates and I tell them about what I have learned. So I, I do that. I do that a lot about going to different places and even to my classes and telling them about what my learnings are. So I'm very more than happy to share it with people.

Mathew: But then on a one-on-one basis, if somebody's interested after listening to my session, they would say, could I have some time of yours? And then we could take it separately, but. Uh, you know, going straight to tell somebody, this is what you're supposed to do, this is what you should have done. I think I shy away from that a little.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Matthew. Uh, so Matthew, uh, you know, when we were, uh, you know, talking, say before the lockdown, uh, we were talking about your, uh, social media activity, your creating content. Uh, today when I was seeing these like wonderful videos on Instagram, very professionally shortened, all those things, I just have two sides, uh, two questions to this particular topic.

Djagmo: One is, um, from a business point of view, how important it is, that's one thing, but then there are a lot of people out there, you know, who are talented in what they do, you know, who are experts and they can teach, but then finding students. Uh, you know, there is the commercial monetary aspect of it as well.

Djagmo: You know, uh, finding students is very important, but it, you know, it needs another different skill putting yourself out there. So how, how did you, what was your first step? Was it easy, difficult, you know, how are you here today with so much of content on your Instagram page and very nicely done as well,

Mathew: right?

Mathew: So, if I have understood your question, you're saying, is it important to put those posts outside, right. And how

Djagmo: No, no, no, no, no. Uh, that's, that's probably, you know, how important it is from a business point of view. But my first question, my, the first part of the question would be, what was the first step for you to, you know, what is that you had to do to get your content out there?

Djagmo: Because a lot of people have a starting trouble with this, right? Uh, they hesitate to put out content they're not sure about coming on video. Was it difficult for you, or was it like easy and natural for you?

Mathew: Well, uh, it was difficult till the time I didn't decide that I wanted to do it. But once you decide that you have to do something, then it's, it wasn't as difficult for me to do it because I tell you why Starting trouble is because most of us are indecisive in making that first decision of taking that first plunge.

Mathew: Now, I wanted to do this for a very long time, not about coming on social media. I was shy, I was shying away from that. But I wanted to take a program that I had developed to corporates for a long time. I would tell people that I want to do it, but I never got myself to getting up and going and talking to somebody.

Mathew: And I was always hiding behind the fact that I'm too busy with doing what I'm already doing. I don't have the time to devote a little more because my bandwidth is completely utilized. Hmm. Now I realized that, uh, I need to do something on that space. Now how do you do that? The one thing I thought somebody, a friend of mine told me was, Uh, maybe you have to try the social media.

Mathew: Now again, social media was something new to me. I wasn't quite, uh, I was on Facebook, but not putting out much videos or anything of that sort. Right? And that's when the decision came in that, you know what, let's try and put in some posts to make it a little more, uh, engaging for the audience. Now, when you put out posts, you could put it out for two reasons.

Mathew: One, you could put it out for value or you could put it out for validation. So some days you may have to put it out for validation. For example, you know, you just go out and say, I did this and I did that. That may be required once in a while, but more often than not, it's something that you put out for value for the audience.

Mathew: So you think about what is it that they really want. So on that basis, I started to. Come up with content and come up with recordings and trying to put it out more consistently, not worrying about whether people are going to like it or you know, what is the kind of reflects that you're going to get out of it.

Mathew: But remembering only keeping in mind one thing that try and add value to the people who are going to hear you. So let that be the only purpose of doing it. And nothing more, nothing less. So there are times when, uh, ever since I started doing that, that's quite recent. It's not long ago. I think it's just a couple of months that I started putting out some videos on Instagram and LinkedIn and things like that.

Mathew: Otherwise, it was just those occasional, uh, in just, uh, shying away from doing that. So I started that. I made a conscious decision to do it and there are people who are supporting me on that. So you always get some kind of validation from the people around you who tell you and give you ideas. So I have a very supportive inner circle.

Mathew: They support me. And, uh, it's been going well so far. So I think where I was lacking was the decision to do it. Once I decided things began to fail, fall in place, and I hope that I'm able to do it going forward as well. For those who are on the fence, just decide, dare and do. More often than not, what we do is we did, we are indecisive about taking that decision.

Mathew: Just make that decision and say, I'm going to do it. Once you make that decision, then you need to dare, dare in the sense you could either fail, you could succeed. Like I said, there's no such thing as failure or only going to learn, so dare and then do it. Unless you do something you wouldn't really know where you are headed to.

Mathew: So take that plunge, do it, and then, you know, decide whether you want to take it up to a whole new level. That's totally your choice, but decide dare and do.

Djagmo: This is, uh, great, Matthew, because, uh, so when you say desire, you're saying you make a decision in terms of whether you want to do it or not. At least do that decision is what you're saying, right?

Djagmo: That's right, that's right. Okay. Uh, so if you decide no, then it's a personal choice. But if you decide yes, then act on the decision. Absolutely. But you're saying making a decision

Mathew: helps. Yeah, making a decision. See, most people sit on the fence saying that I will do it tomorrow. So they, they not deciding not to do something is also a decision.

Mathew: So either you do it or you don't do it. So, right. Making a decision is very important. I think in Bob Proctor, we've been taught one thing. If you have decision making muscles, if you can strengthen your decision making muscles, more often than not, you would be successful in most of the things that you want to do.

Mathew: But what happens for most people is, you know, before I decide, let me ask him. Let me ask her. And if you ask 10 people, you'll get a hundred opinions, and then that stops you in your track. So decide for yourself. Consult one or two people if you have to, but even if you don't, it's fine. So decide there and do that should be the sequence, I believe.

Djagmo: Great. Matthew, uh, from a business perspective, from a business point of view, has it started to show, or has it started to contribute, uh, these, uh, social media engagements that you're doing through video or through posts

Mathew: now? As of now, I have not sold anything through my posts and video. I'm only putting there something out.

Mathew: I've not even spoken about the programs that I have. I'm just putting out some things of value. So it's early days, no collaborations done. As of now, I don't announce about my programs. I don't tell people, come and subscribe to my channel something, subscribe to my program. I haven't done it yet. It's like I said, it's early days, you know, we are just beginning.

Mathew: Our, our journey on the social media. Uh, it's too early for me to even comment on what I plan to do later because it'll happen as it goes. But of course, definitely down the line there is, uh, once I get a little more traction and, uh, when friends like you will promote, hopefully things will happen.

Djagmo: Yeah, of course, Matthew.

Djagmo: Sure. And, uh, so, so far, what has been your method, uh, from, you know, going to the market with your programs?

Mathew: I haven't gone so far. Oh.

Djagmo: Okay, so, uh, you, you aren't, uh,

Mathew: coaching anybody yet? I am coaching, but these are the people who have come to me through my stocks or somebody who comes and they've asked me.

Mathew: I do it that way. I do it on a, in a, on a small scale because my major chunk of my job still is about teaching and delivering content for my students. So I, like I said earlier, I would like to spend a lot more time on what I'm doing currently, but, uh, I haven't really taken it up. We are beginning to go to corporates.

Mathew: We are beginning to go to corporates and talk to them and tell them about the programs that we have. We have a program, which is called Discover the Diamond New. We have a program which is called Thinking Into Results. It's just early days that I've started to go out, but, uh, you know, it's, it's nowhere close to where I would want to go, all because of the bandwidth.

Djagmo: Got it. Got it. Matthew, so do you have a, a strategy in place you're, uh, looking at to acquire clients or, you know, get people into programs that you're offering As

Mathew: of now? Yeah. What, what we are planning to do is talk to a little more people in the corporate and see whether we could help them. So it's n it's just about going to corporates, talking to them, understanding what their issues are, because everybody is facing, fighting their own battles.

Mathew: So some corporates may have people who are not as, uh, cooperative as they should be, or they're behind back on their targets and things like that. So it'll be talking to people on a one-on-one, one basis, maybe talking to the learning and development, understanding what their needs are, tailoring it to something that they require, because it's not one pill for all the ills.

Mathew: You'll have to tailor it and go back to them. But the strategy going forth would be talk to people, understand where they are, and then take it to them until such time, go out and, you know, talk to as many corporates as you can, talk to as many students as you can, and just try and add value to the people around you.

Djagmo: Got it. Matthew. Um, when, and, uh, you know, when I was, uh, going through your Instagram profile, uh, there are a couple of things that you've mentioned. One is, uh, empowered Mind Squad, and, uh, another is a Mind Mastery system. These are the two programs that I, so I'm sure you've got a lot more. Yeah. Can we just, uh, I was wondering what these could be.

Djagmo: Could you just let me in on these two things?

Mathew: Yeah. See, how do you, how do, how do we empower ourselves? That's the first thing you talked about. See, it's basically, it all connects to a lot of things that you and I are capable of doing. So the one thing that Ju Mohan plagues most people is the knowing, doing Gap.

Mathew: Everybody knows, but very few people do. So how do you bridge the knowing, doing Gap? The second thing is how do you understand how your conscious mind works and how your subconscious mind works? Are you living inside out? Are you living outside in, like I mentioned to you earlier? Then there's something we just call the Praxis.

Mathew: Praxis is nothing but. Merging behavior with belief. Now, if you ask more people are you believe? Do you believe that you can do much more than what you're doing? They'll say yes, yes. But if you see the behavior, if you look at their behavioral pattern, they don't show it as much. So you may believe one thing, but you behave differently because of your conditioning.

Mathew: So these are the things we would like to tell people, to empower them as to how they could make a shift from op suboptimal to optimal from moving, from success to significance, from mediocrity to magnificence. So all these programs are tailored to help people understand themselves, break the shackles, break free, and do something beyond what they have done earlier.

Mathew: So it was Mark Twain who once said, 20 years from now, you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than the things you did. So throw off the bowl lines, sail away from safe harbor, catch the trade wins in your sales, explore, dream, discover. So this is about when you empower people, when you, when they understand, when you give them the tools, when you uplift, inspire, empower them.

Mathew: They will take the tools and they will use it themselves. So in these programs, what we try to do is give them the tools that they want. Let them use the tools by themselves. Let them taste it. Let them cook their own dish. You only provide them the ingredients. And that's something we strive to do through all the programs that we have.

Djagmo: Got it. And, uh, Okay. Uh, you might have already addressed this, but I'm gonna ask you again, uh, just a little differently. Uh, you said you are gonna give the ingredients, it is left to the people to make what they want out of it or use it the way that they want. Now, let's say since the audience, uh, you know, of this show could be, uh, a lot of people who are into teaching and training, how, uh, you know, what would be the program that you know you would help with?

Djagmo: Or what would be the ingredients that you'd help with? Uh, can you customize something just to enhance the way people train and teach in anything that they do? You know, uh, they, they could be sports trainers or there could be sales trainers or anybody. They train people on a certain skill, but can you also train them to become better at what they do?

Djagmo: In terms of connecting with the students, becoming a better teacher or a better trainer?

Mathew: Oh, that's a brilliant question actually. So when you say, can you train the trainers? Absolutely. Why not? Now? Everybody wants to have a better connect. Everybody wants to have their businesses growing, to get a little more clients, get a little more, uh, revenue and helping more people. Now, when you say money and all those things, these are byproducts, right?

Mathew: It's these are the byproducts of the services that you enter. There's something called the law of compensation, which says the money a person earns is directly proportionate to three things, the need for what you do. Your ability to do it. And the difficulty there is in replacing you. So the coaches or the people who want to really make money have to look at these three factors.

Mathew: So if it's a sports, let's say a sports, uh, you know, trainer or somebody who is getting into online for the purpose of delivering some sports, uh, related training, they have to first understand what is a need for what they're doing. Do they have the ability to do it? And then they can improvise on that.

Mathew: And the third thing is, what is a difficulty in they being replaced? Otherwise there could be somebody else who comes. So they're always on their toes to understand where they stand. The second thing that we could help them with is how do you create goals? Now, goal creation is an art. In order for us to be able to create a goal, we have to understand the art of goal creation, and it all begins with starting with the fantasy.

Mathew: Now, when you say, when you ask me the question, is it right for us to think about the future when we are stuck in the present? I said yes. So that's the other aspect. You start with fantasizing what you really want. Once you have fantasized, so whatever the trainer is or whoever the trainer is, they fantasize about what is it they want in their business, how many students do they want to coach?

Mathew: What is a niche that they have to develop? What is the customer's requirements or their students' requirement? They bring what they have learned in their own workplace or in their own education and experience, and they create a niche for themselves and they bring and build a product. Now, when they fantasize as to this is the product that I want to build, this is the num number of people I want to touch, this is the number of people I want to train.

Mathew: This is the kind of revenue I want to get. It's a kind of fantasy. Once you take that fantasy, you ask yourself two different questions, which is, am I able to do it? Now, more often than not, you will get the answer to that question is, yes, I am able. Because anybody who has achieved anything of substance has answered that question.

Mathew: Yes, I am able to do it because, you know, we are all, like I said, spiritual beings with the physical existence. So there is a power within us, there is capability within us. When we look around us, we are peop, we have seen people who are ordinary achieving, extraordinary, uh, results. So the question, the first, the answer to the first question, am I able is more often than not, it's going to be yes.

Mathew: If not, then it's high time that we look at what is it that we are after. For example, if I say I want to be the fastest runner in the next Olympics, am I able to do it? I'll get an answer. No, because some things have to be at the right time, right? So I'll get an answer. No. But if I want to be, let's say a speaker, if I want to be having my business taken across the world, am I able to do it?

Mathew: Absolutely. I'll get the answer yes. Then come to the second question, which is, am I willing to do it? Now when you say, am I willing to do it, that's where your perseverance, your hard work, your thinking, your planning, you are collaborating, all that comes into play. Are you willing to sacrifice some time in order to get your business up and running?

Mathew: And the answer that most people will get is yes, because it's not an easy game. So are you willing to do it? Are you able to do it? Once you get a yes to both these answers, that fantasy now becomes a theory. So you have theorized the entire thing and in order to make it. A reality in order to make it a fact, there are some things that you need to follow, understanding who you are, and there is a, there are couple of steps that need to be followed.

Mathew: So this is how a person who could, you know, teach these things can help the people who are actually building their own online training business. So is there a fantasy? Do you know about a fantasy? Can you think of building your own fantasy? Can you think beyond way, way beyond what you're capable of doing right now?

Mathew: If you think you can get 50 students, can you think of 5,000 students? No, I've never thought about that. Why not? Yeah. So then you take them to a whole new level of thinking. Then they theorize that, you know, am I willing to do it? Yes. Am I able to do it? Yes. That becomes your theory. Now can that drive you?

Mathew: And then eventually that becomes a fact. So all these things can be taught to the people who really are interested in making a cut about the others when it comes to their online business.

Djagmo: Got it. Matthew, thank you. Uh, I'm sure, I mean, why wouldn't people be interested? So especially given that, um, I'm expecting a lot of upcoming knowledge entrepreneurs to be listening to this.

Djagmo: So I'd like to, the reason I just brought it, it, uh, brought this topic in is sometimes I've realized that the same thing has to be told in a certain language for people to receive it. Otherwise it gets lost if it is out of their, uh, world. Uh, I have personally experienced it. That's the reason I kind of asked.

Djagmo: Okay. So here's what I'm gonna tell, uh, or share with the listeners here. Uh, if you have, you know, if you have, uh, taught people and if you think you can teach and if you're looking to make a career out of teaching and have an academic, um, passion given that you know, you're an expert in your field and then you really want to do this, you're passionate.

Djagmo: The only skill, uh, that is setting apart a lot of teachers from kind of going to the next level is the business aspect, I think, which is where you can probably, um, uh, probably, you know, Matthew can step in and help fantasize first and then put it into theory and then, you know, with the right tools make it also happen a reality.

Djagmo: Uh, but Matthew actually does a lot of other things, but I'm just kind of putting it in that way for you to relate. And then, you know, I'm saying this is another way in which, uh, one can also use, uh, Matthew's expertise. So that's exactly, uh, where I'm coming at. Um, so, uh, Matthew. Thank you so much. Uh, I think, um, I asked you all the questions that I wanted to, and you've spoken a lot of questions I didn't ask because some of your answers actually covered a lot of sub-questions of mine as well.

Djagmo: Okay. Uh, before we, uh, conclude, um, how can people contact you and what do you have in store Matthew, like going ahead, you know, what are your offerings and, uh, if people, uh, listening to you, I myself, the first 15 minutes after listening to you as like, okay, fine, you know, I was gonna get in touch with you after this to talk about certain things.

Djagmo: I'm sure a lot of people, uh, would love to, uh, talk to you and get in touch with you. So what is the way I.

Mathew: Well, you can reach out to me on LinkedIn if that's convenient, or on my Insta handle, which is Matthew v e r g. And uh, we would be happy to tell you what we offer. But the important thing is work on yourself.

Mathew: We have programs like, which is called, uh, discovering the Diamond in you. Now, you and I are right now standing on acres of Diamond. We may not realize that we may look beyond where we stand right now, looking for diamonds in somebody else's garden. But right now, you and I are standing on beautiful grounds where we could mine the acres that is within us.

Mathew: You and I have faculties. We have a conscious mind and a subconscious mind. So for you and me, anything is possible. We have a program which is called Thinking Into Results. You start with the end in mind like, uh, it was Stephen Covey who told us about the seven Habits of Highly Effective People. He says, be proactive.

Mathew: Begin with the end in mind. Think win win First things first. Uh, synergize and sharpen yourself. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. All of these are brilliant habits. If at all you find a time, please go and read that book and this will help you. The whole idea of us coming here together is to help people find something in them, which they don't find otherwise.

Mathew: Thinking into Results is one such program where we tell people you've gotta start with the end in mind and then work yourself to towards understanding who you really are and then di mining whatever potential there is within you. Because you and I are meant to do much bigger, bigger, brighter. And wonderful things.

Mathew: In doing so, we'll make this world a much better place. There's one final thing. It was Benjamin Franklin who said, some people die at 25, but they're not buried until 75. So let us not just live mediocre lives, let us not just live for the sake of living, but rather let's truly live to our potentials. At least try to do so.

Mathew: Because in doing so, you will uplift a lot of people who come in touch with you. You will inspire them. You'll empower them to become better versions of themselves. And finally, when you do that, you will leave a signature on somebody's soul and 10 years, 20 years down the line, when they see you and they tell you, you know what?

Mathew: You walked into my life. You changed my perception today. I'm doing something that you helped me understand then. And that's when you will say, even if you're able to touch one life, your life will be fulfilled. So that's what I leave the audience with.

Djagmo: Great, Matthew. Thank you. Just a little more questions about, let's say, let's take the program, uh, discover the diamond in you.

Djagmo: Yeah. Uh, the first step would be what? Like, uh, would it be like a consultation or, you know? Yeah, we could,

Mathew: we could get on a discovery call. Okay, so on a Zoom discovery call, and once we understand, once we understand from the person, because you know it has to be a two-way fit. It's not that everybody who comes in get gets enrolled.

Mathew: So it has to be a two-way fit. We should understand each other. We must know whether we will be able to add value to each other. You know, at the end of the day, it's a give and take. So if is somebody willing to put in that kind of effort is somebody, it's not just about the money, it's about the effort that you need to put in.

Mathew: Are you serious about making a change in your life? When we see that we are a good fit, then we can take it up from there. So the first thing for any program would be getting into a, you know, maybe a, maybe a thir 20 to 30 minute discovery call, understanding if it works fine, we'll join hands and go forward.

Mathew: If not good. At least we've met, we've got acquainted. And then maybe one more contact in our list.

Djagmo: And if it works out, yeah, typically, uh, does it have a fixed duration? The program, it's, it is gonna be one-on-one coaching, I believe. Is that right, Matthew?

Mathew: Yeah. See, we would prefer now to move from a one-on-one to a team coaching, but yes, as of now we do have a one-on-one coaching, which we.

Mathew: Think takes a lot of our time. So a group would be something which is preferred. Uh, typically the Thinking into Results program would be a 12 week program, which we have 12 lessons in that. And we would take students through all the registered members through each of these lessons. It could either be once a week or twice a week because there are a lot of homework to be done.

Mathew: So depending on the person's capability and the person's ability to be able to spend time on a daily basis. Writing down. You mentioned something which is very pertinent. You asked me a question instead. I'm asking you because I want this to be repeated and what you said was right, because we, the more and more, more and more we repeat, repetition is the key.

Mathew: You know, you get things and concepts reinforced within us. So when we do this program, repetition again is the key. So depending on how well a person is, some may say, I wanna do it once a week, some may say no. I wanna take my time in order to come up with my statements of purpose, vision, and goal. Gimme some time.

Mathew: I'll do one lesson every two weeks. In that case, it'll run for 24 weeks, but it's a 12 chapter. Uh, lesson and people will be able to see a difference in the way they think, in the way they perceive and the way they behave and come up with something way beyond what they had thought they were capable of doing.

Djagmo: And, uh, what is the kind of time one is expected to, you know, typically how much time does one have to set aside in their day for this?

Mathew: So typically, at least in the morning, half an hour, and in the afternoon, half an hour, I mean, sorry, in the evening, half an hour. So maybe an hour is more than enough.

Mathew: There are some video lessons that they need to look at if they're interested in the full-fledged program, which comes from Bob Proctor. So if you're interested in that, then that's a different way of doing it. If not, I would say at least 45 minutes every day on investing. I mean, in investing in your own selves, because that's important.

Mathew: 45 minutes to an R is an ideal thing to spend on your own day, understanding yourself and working yourself, writing down your goals, and then taking yourself, because it's all about taking yourself to a destination, which is going to be beautiful. So you have to invest that amount of time. And,

Djagmo: uh, there'll be interactions with you every day, Matthew?

Djagmo: Not

Mathew: every day. It depends on when they are interested. We will meet once a week or twice, once every two weeks, depending on the duration of the program, and then if they have some. You know, clarifications that's required, or if they have some, uh, feedback that they're asking for, or if they're stuck in some place, then we get on a call and, uh, that's on a need basis.

Mathew: But the typical thing is once every two weeks.

Djagmo: Got it. And this can be done online,

Mathew: right? Oh, yes. It's online. Yes, it's done online. It's online. Yes. It's done only online. Yeah, it's done online. But if it is a corporate, like I told you, we are now reaching out to corporates and there is an interest wherein they ask us to come and talk to their employees as a team, because we have programs wherein it's not just an individual who can be impacted, but as a team, for example, in a corporate, the team has a goal and the objectives have a goal.

Mathew: I mean, the, in the corporate has an objective, and every department have their own objectives. So if the department objectives are not met, then the goal of the organization is not met. So you need to take it and tell these people as a team. So that's one thing that's going to happen going forward.

Mathew: Working with people for teams so that it's a team exercise that they will be doing. So we have individuals and team and both are possible.

Djagmo: Got it. Matthew, thank you, uh, so much for this information. I'm sure. Um, you know, I mean, at least for me, uh, it seems something very important, something very basic for people to look at.

Djagmo: Uh, so I will probably get in touch with you and, uh, see, you know, whether something can be done. Sure. Um, but yeah, otherwise, thank you so much again. Um, let's see. Uh, if I can get back with some follow up questions based on, you know, uh, what we spoke, there are some things which we could not dive deeper into.

Djagmo: Obviously, because the nature of this podcast is not to go, uh, was not about, um, the. Program itself, it was more about, uh, talking to Matthew and the business angle of it. Yes. Uh, but if there is a chance, and, you know, probably a few weeks down the line, uh, if things work out, we can have another podcast where, you know, you could probably dive a little more deeper, uh, and probably show an example, uh, which would, uh, you know, solve a small problem that could kind of be an example.

Djagmo: And I, I, I think that'll be great. Uh, that's what I'm thinking, but we'll see Matthew. Yeah, sure. This podcast is brought to you by Edison Noes, a no-code EdTech platform to operate an online education business. Knowledge entrepreneurs can use Edison OS to sell online courses from their own websites.

Djagmo: Manage Online Masterclass, launch mobile learning app. Sell online practice tests for competitive exams, run online learning communities, digitizing their offline tutoring business, use it as a learning management system, and a lot more cases in the domain of knowledge commerce.

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