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10 Feb 2023
1hr 36mins

Episode 7 | Osheen Chavhan | She Loves Code

In this podcast, you get to meet Osheen Chavhan, founder and CEO of She Loves Code, talks about her journey from being a Microsoft Student Partner.

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Djagmo: Osheen Welcome to the Knowledge entrepreneur Show. Thank you so much for taking the time out to join me. 

Osheen: Thank you for having me.

Djagmo: It's my pleasure. great, so Osheen before we get into the podcast, you know, with the questions and all those things, I'd like to just talk a little bit about why we're doing this

podcast show so that you know both of us are aligned in the direction that we'll be talking for the next hour or two. So as the name says right, it is a show dedicated to knowledge. entrepreneurs, and people are interested in entrepreneurship, that around education and knowledge, and we are an education technology company. Not that we teach These days. You know people who are into education. They call themselves an Edtech company. Of course, they used technology to teach, but we build the technology behind that, so that's that's the kind of

education technology company that we are, and all of our clients are into the education business right there, sharing knowledge in one way or the other we taught. You know for all the people that are outside who are teaching for some other company who are training for another. You know, they might have their own ideas and they might want to do their own stuff, but they have no idea. They have no experience or knowledge. Understanding what exactly is aping what it is to run a knowledge company, As opposed to teaching for a knowledge company, there are two different things, and although there is internet, there's so much information. Nothing can be a real conversation with somebody who's running a company, and a conversation with somebody like that I thought will bring out a lot of value to those people who are outside there. You know, listening not only for them to understand what it takes to run a company, but it can also sometimes save them from desiring. This is not my cup of tea, because you know entrepreneurship is not easy and that is also a value addition. And that's how we look at this and we will definitely be talking. You know about what you do, but the focus we are trying to keep is on the business aspect of how you do things. And that's what this is going to be. Thank you once again for joining me and my first question to you, Osheen is a very simple, open ended question To start off, because, and it's going to be a little personal as well, because the first few minutes I think it's important for us to connect personally to the listeners, so that you know then who Osheen is and you know what has this situation that you are right now, So if you can walk us through your journey from your graduation, Because the reason I'm saying graduation is when I looked up about you. You seem to have already started doing a lot of things while you were in your graduation time itself, So if you can you know, share your journey, your childhood, how you grew up. How did you end up in the computer science field? Little bit great. Over to your

Osheen: So I belong to a very humble and modest family wherein I was always encouraged and motivated to get all As and academics. It percent, You know, the girls, I think who were a part of my batch were all scoring like ninety five per percent. And that is what I was aspiring to do like a very typical regular Indian. You know, not in your family. So yeah, that's what I was sort of destined to do, And then ultimately, the aim was to get a job in one of these big MNCs. but for my parents, Surprisingly, for my parents, especially for my mom, she wanted me to be a professor and my dad wanted me to be a doctor because he was just fascinated about, you know, being a young girl, being a doctor, I don't know what. Maybe I would be able to take care of him. He had some sort of fascination with that. That's what I was taught in my childhood, but then I was very grateful to have a parents who allowed me to actually choose and support it moreover to take up the career that I wanted to take. So when I was in the tenth standard, actually, when we were supposed to take up a subject and I was getting all these good marks, I said, "Listen, I want to take up engineering”. Now, my parents, my mom are a little heart broken because they wanted me to take you know Bio, and I knew that I couldn't do it. I simply couldn't and that is, I have huge respect for the people who are in the medicine field. You know, I personally could not have done it at all. And then after that I started with my, you know eleven, doing engineering preparation and all lined up in one of those engineering colleges There after you know, my graduation was done from a tier 2 college. My post graduation was done from an IT college, so I was always very aspirational to pick up something which would sort of put me at the same level, or give me an exposure to all of these big big giants that I was willing to work for. And that is why I ended up exploring multiple programs by these companies and ended up becoming a student partner. At that time I was a student partner. It's very different now, but at that time it was run in a very specific manner and I was fortunate enough to get  into it and the twist finally came in when I was trying and trying. You know you know what happens is that when you keep trying and trying and trying and trying and trying, After some point you know one when you're consistent, there comes a point And then maybe a luck supports you, or maybe you just sort of get that one opportunity and out of all the opportunities that you have got, you just land up somewhere which you completely define your life. So that's what happened when I got selected for the entrepreneurship program.

It was founded by the government of India. It was by the government and also by the government of Kerala and I did Course there, and it was a very hands down kind of a program. so we were incubated. My first company's name was not in Infispark, you know, So that was my first company and we were working on some sort of a product in the health case face itself, and when I did that course, Believe me, I was the only girl in that course to visit Silicon Valley, along with twenty eight men, twenty eight boys. In fact, I have never met them. Most of the crowd was from South India, and I absolutely loved the company that I had with them. I had a blast, but then it's still very. You know. Sort of it makes you conscious as a girl like okay, fine, I'm going. I've never met these people and I'm going to us and I'm going to use for the first time with all these people. So it was a very exhilarating experience where I willingly went to the US and I was exploring the system. That and then that is when I realized that listen, I'm too young to be a part of any company and to do any job. I need my own space to actually figure it out. You know what I want to do in my life. I'm like too young with this, and that's where the brain is totally required. And then of course I participated in one of the largest global technical competitions. One idea represents where all of that happened. You know good stuff, so all that consistent hard work sort of started to you know, show its colors, and uh, and when I was participating in, there was like a whole lot of experience all together Because you're competing with some of the best of the colleges that you once dreamt of studying it. So I was competing

Stanford, Imperial College, London, and it was it was. It was quite intimidating at first when you would go and at first talk to people. But then you realize that they were just as even as you are, and they aren't making any jokes out there, so just be confident and do what you actually have to do. Therefore, and that happened, And that sort of gave me a lot of confidence to move ahead in my life. So when I came back, I said my mom is and I can't do a job right now. Take another time. Good job offer in hand, and at this point I just want to have some faith in myself and I just want to start something of my own, whatever it be. So that's when I started Infispark. I actually bootstrap. I utilized all the industry connections which I had made during. as a student. I was visible in the forum, so that's why it was very easy for me to sort of kick start that journey for people to believe in me, And when I started doing it, it's been six years that I'm running it and it's just scaling and scaling and scaling. I mean, we're growing bigger over time, so that's the nature of what has happened.

Djagmo: Amazing, first of all, congratulations on your journey. It's inspiring definitely, but anyway, you know, I'll keep that for the last, but I have a lot of questions from whatever you spoke So far you know very interesting stuff, so this is keeping in mind you know lot of listeners who are who might be having these questions as well, so I'm also thinking on behalf of them. So when you said along your journey you were a student partner with Microsoft. My first question is what is that all about? I did see your profile and you know I wanted to ask you what a student partner is? And you said it was different back then and it's different now. What are the differences and how can it help students today? I'm sorry for piling it up, but I can repeat the questions for you.

Osheen: So actually, I believe me, I owe my career to that program. Okay, because the kind of exposure that I got there at a very early stage, it's huge and you don't just get it without talking to so many people without being a part of that huge community. So I remember at that time there used to be five hundred shooting partners across India, and I know that sounds like a really huge number. but look at the number of engineering colleges. India at any point in time was at least five thousand plus I'm not even counting the technical colleges or a polytechnic. Just the engineering college. It's a huge number. So there used to be these students who were choosing from different campuses. Basis on the technical competency communication, someone who is you know, outgoing, someone who can do the tech as well as you know, is quite outspoken, so as to learn about more Microsoft technologies. You go, and you apply for yourself and it's a competition, a huge competition. Actually, you know how to get into a program at that time. Yes, it still was, and I think it still is. During our times. Mostly there was a community level structure wherein you would have some student partners leading certain chapters in these to your to, and cities and over and above, As and when you move up to larder, you sort of you know, connect with the Microsoft Team. There used to be a very specific idea team to handle all of this. I think now the differences that they have divided the entire Ms. P into multiple levels. So there's an alpha beta and threefold types of level which you need to sort of clear and do some sort of activity to become, or come up at part with that alpha level, And then the privileges are according to those levels. During our time when you became a sphere, you got really cool stuff. You know, you got apart from goodies By the way, we used to get all the microsoft for free, so we had our obviously sixty five free or student partners. There were five licenses which were given to us for one workshop.

So it just really accelerates learning. We used to get amazing benefits for Microsoft, or anything that a student would require to learn the microsoft tech, and actually not just microsoft tech. If you're good at tech and you need resources to deploy your projects to take it to life. They would help us with that and a lot of visibility. So I remember, during my time I interviewed, I was the president of Microsoft India at the time when he was newly appointed, so a lot of exposure was right. Once you are just out there, the opportunities keep on coming up, and they give maximum visibility to these students. You know, Maybe if somebody, if you are one of those people who is very community driven and likes to do it, this is a place for you.

Djagmo: Okay, But what exactly do you do as a student partner?

Osheen: So as a student partner, we have sort of quarterly targets. You know, there are some x number of workshops that we want to do. There are some x number of learning parts that we have to go  through. There are some courses that we really have to do, there's some work that we have to submit at the end of every quarter. Okay, so it sort of accelerates personal growth at that time. I remember during our times there used to be the S. P summit which used to be a prestigious event and there are few MSP all called together, gathered together to share what all they have done over the years, which was the coolest event of the year. At that time, I have lovely memories from that summit. Certainly, yeah, so where so from the home town that I belong to, I belong from Indoor. And that was what the most happening community has become. Over the years. At that time  we used to have my technical community. We would call people from all across the city. Do a lot of workshops every weekend. Every weekend there was something or the other which was going on, so it sort of made our lives very happening, rather than going to a boarding engineering college.  I was doing my engineering at that time.

Djagmo: And it lasted all the four years?

Osheen: So I got in when I was in second year. You're just mostly figuring it out. What's going on? you know, so that's it.

Djagmo: And so what happened after that? So what was your next step? You know, Once you finished your engineering, how did you leverage that you know one of the best practices. Now for people you know who, listening, who might be thinking? Okay, you know, this is something that I want to do. Becoming a student partner is one thing right. But then there are things that you need to do things that you shouldn't be doing. Also, And you know, How, Did you use this to kind of get to where you are? You know how to leverage it in the best possible way.

Osheen: Right. so I have a lot of student partners by the way, who have landed a job in Microsoft.co. Okay as a company when they were associated with Microsoft, I know a couple of them there are a lot of over these years. constituted. Imagine cup winners who have you know, finally landed a job in the Microsoftco system because you know people

do recognize them that you know one of the toughest competitions that you have wanted, well respected. You just need to really, just apply. Make good connections. When you are in the partner, makers of the student partner system may connect with the people who can refer you later on. You know, because of your work, I think that something which is very of prime importance, but then with me my journey was a little different because instead of getting a job which I was offered, I took a leap of faith and started something of but then that there, also I leveraged all the connects that I had in the industry and I just sort of, in fact, Microsoft was one of my first clients by the way for work and they still are. We have been working for six years and I'm totally completely. It's an honor to work with them and that relationship with every passing day goes stronger with every you know collaboration that we do.

Djagmo: I'm sure you know Microsoft is a huge name and I know people who work for Microsoft and just as employees, I understand you  know how much pride they take, and as as a partner, and sure, you know, you have your own high, so going back a little bit to again, You know how you know what you said about your story. I want to ask you another question. You told me about the Imagine cup. So the Imagine cup was also part of the Ms. P thing, or that's a separate thing.

Osheen: Imagine cup is an open competition. It is one of the largest. we, in fact, we call it

Olympics of Technology competition for students, So it's one of the largest global competitions Because the prize money is huge. It's a hundred thousand dollars. It's actually a hundred thousand dollars. If you know when it is, and as a student can apply for it. Imagine, in fact, we just won the semi finals. I think very recently in February itself, so Next year you can certainly tune in the application. Generally open up in the November time frame, and it gives you a different perspective, So it's you who have participated and then you know you get the results. No, it's not like that. Once you're into the competition, it's a journey for six months.

You know you are into it. There are multiple levels You have to cross in all lines of missions, regional finals and finals in your finals, and then you go at the wall levels and you're still doing All of that quarter final semi final world finals all of that again. It's a competition between one hundred and eighteen countries. 

Djagmo: And you are the India winner?

Osheen: I used to be. Yes, I've been the India winner. During my time and then I've also been on a big qualified list at the word level, I couldn't win it. In fact, surprising fact, India has never been on the already we imagine came hoping to do that. We've been trying it for a twenty two years old competition. Now you know, So has a legacy of it. And it's very well recognised In Uk and US especially, the Imagine cup is huge in us. So if you're one of those kids who are looking forward to doing your higher education later on, you know IT adds a lot of value to your resume. In fact, I suggest that every engineering student should participate at least once in four years in it. At least you know it gives you a different kind of exposure.

Djagmo: Yeah, I mean, it's not about winning right. At least you know what's going on there. Okay, you know, you know how far you are from what's actually going on at least, or how near you are. fine. So you finished your engineering. You said you had an offer in hand, but then you took a leap of faith And that is when you started in Infispark.

Osheen: Yes, I did so I was really tired after three years of being an M P and traveling. The entire, going to the US and multiple country's representation. I wanted to take three months of break. And at that time all these thoughts started coming to my head that you, no, no, no, no, I want to do something else. I want to join any company to do this. It's just a huge conflict. And then I took advice from my brother, who was. I think sixteen at that time and I just said I said I want to do this. Said go ahead you probably didn't know anything about. Just encourage me. And then I was like Okay, Fine. Now that you have said this,  I'm going to do it. And he's not the one? He's not the only one. I would say. So my parents of course supported me a lot. I was extremely fortunate enough to have great mentors when I was making these connections in the you know ecosystem. When I was working very hard, there were few people who really really supported me  and helped me. Sort of a frame of mind that you know you can go and do beyond what you know. at that time all these microscope leads, the India team supported me a lot. Now most of them are working in Asia Pacific. Some of them have become, you know, grown ahead in their careers and become the M B of some of these large corporations, but they have really, really helped. They have really shaped up, so in fact, you know what if I have to give you one advice, and if you ever get a chance, Choose up between a mentor. being in any one of these campuses, rival campuses. I would always choose to have a mentor, because that really accelerates your growth. And there's one thing that I realized that you know, if your mentor is not harsh on you, your career, your journey or your growth will be. You're pretty constant like this, But  if you are, if you're mental, it really wants your growth, and it's here she is. You know, a little harsh on you, Then your growth you know, really excellent and it can be very very steep. So I truly believe in that concept, very old school and I'm very thankful to all the people who supported me.

Djagmo: It's very interesting that you chose to talk about you know, without even me asking you a question, I think you're at a very important point at the right time. If there's an option for you to choose between having a mental and being in one of those big campuses. choose a man. The reason I'm coming back to this is a podcast with another person. His name is Vamsi Korama, He runs a software development company. He's based in Hyderabad. He's also, you know, one of those young geniuses and when I did a podcast I asked him, You know, Am, When you look back, do you think you know he also finished his engineering, and he rejected some amazing offers that he had, and then he chose to start up his own company, so I asked him. You think one, two years working could have probably helped you? He said, look, looking back, Yes, it could have gone either way. But if there's one thing that I missed, it is having a mentor because he said he had to solve a lot of problems on his own. That's what you know. reminded me of this particular thing. So I think the more I talk to, the more people talk about having a mentor. I think probably you know, coming from people who have experienced it, it's going to be easier for young people to make a decision even if  they do not realize it at that point of time. So it's great. So you said, I'm assuming you know your MSP stint itself was so hectic and it felt like you were in a job. So Think probably you might have got some some amount of experience being an MSP that you know you may not have missed being in a job or something like that. So that's what I see from this. The next question for me, is this right? So you said Okay, You've been in that technical atmosphere you wanted to break, and then you wanted to start up your own company. Now, Did you only have the clarity that I do not want to work for another company, Or did you also have some clarity about what exactly you wanted to do with your start up?

Osheen: I had some clarity and wanted to continue to do what I was doing, actually, because I have become so good at it.

Djagmo: So you were, You wanted to do whatever you were doing as an M. P. But you wanted to do it in you for your company,

Osheen: Yes, yes, and at a much larger scale,

Djagmo: So how was Infispark born?

Osheen: So how do we bring all these programs which incorporate not just Microsoft, but also Google, Amazon, Facebook names as we have, with all of them, How do we bring these programs into the campus right? There's so many free offerings which are out

there. Everyone is trying each one of these big companies. Global giants are trying to promote their own ecology. But is it really reaching the masses right? India has a huge population. 

Djagmo: I'm gonna stop you here. I'm gonna be so sorry, because I think you're talking about something for which you know I'd like to put a proper structure with a question. I think you can continue because that will fall under that. So what is Infispark? and what do you do? What problems do you solve?

Osheen: So right, so we at Infispark, we are trying to bridge a gap between industry and academia. That sort of in a nutshell, which is also our tagline. So we work in partnership with corporate university student communities to empower the young students, and we try to bring in the programs from all of these big corporations to the university system of India, Right, trying to upskill. So we have sort of divided ourselves or most of the world that we do over the years into one being very traditional because of which, in part, was formed, and that, to bring in most of these offerings to these students, and you know, sort of digitally transforming these compasses and then now you know where in when we see that there's a huge gap between our skill cap between what is required in the industry. This is what is there in the academy. We have also started To work with universities to directly up-skill youth with a short, three months, sort of a program and making them employable. You know, on what is there of the industry, let's say, for example, cloud all of these technologies. Mostly these are the two main wings that we're working with because of also, over and about because of my very keen interest in the skilling ego system of India, and looking at Because I've been very connected to education. Over these years, we have also from the last two years worked very pro actively in the C S space, as well as to uplift the students in the polytechnic colleges and the ideas too. So mostly we do a lot in space. Not very specific to every use case, but we, but we do a lot of work in this space and multiple areas.

Djagmo: I'm just going to you know. look at it from a business perspective, and I'm going to ask you some basic questions and I'm really trying to get the business model around this. That's the reason why I'm going to ask you the next few questions. So you said in Infispark, helping bridge the gap between corporate and Academia perfectly. I think that's something that we've been needing for a long time, and you're doing it in that space, and I think we need this for every industry out there, because what is being done in college is so different from what's being done out there. So when you say you're bridging the gap right, you are taking programs that are already offered by these take giants. Okay, and what is the value that you add here?

Osheen: So we are corporate. Most of this. Most of these corporations don't have the kind of bandwidth. These programs for themselves are a team of two, three or four, five people. You know even though you know there are large numbers on the table with a. But then those large numbers, globally employed the number of people who work in these big corporations. But when you talk about it, India, teams are teams very specific To subsidiaries there are very less number of people who are working there right. So they work a lot in the concentric circle through partners like us. You know who can actually on ground deliver these programs. You know when it's needed to be done. So for example, I'll give you an example. So we were one of the largest partners for implementation of microsoft teams during the pan pandemic time. So when the pandemic hit all the universities had to, you know, switch to an online model. And that is quite tough to do on your own because you're taking the whole university and the university sizes are in ten thousand, twenty thousand, thirty thousand. It's huge, right? It's a huge implementation that you're doing. It's like managing the entire corporation all together, and getting those people to use teams as a platform, getting them to understand what Policy structure should be, and then finally digitally transforming the campus. It is impossible for these corporations to do all by themselves right, they need text support. They need twenty four seven help. They need workshops. Lots of workshops to make people actually use it. So yeah, I mean, we have also designed multiple programs. Not just you know, very text specific, but let's say this multiple student ambas program something that I was Part of, I started actually doing it for the corporate, so there's a possibility that if you're a part of these student partner programs, our company is the one who is running at the back. Yah. there's a possibility. 

Djagmo: So when you say you help them deliver the program, you actually go and you know, Physically conduct seminar, sort of a thing, and you transfer the knowledge to the students. 

Osheen: So we work more like an extended arm of these corporates. We are like an extended family. Just a part of your team, you know, But except that we have a separate organization, so we customize a lot, and then yes, everything that they want to do, or the kind of impact that they want to have in the universities. And what are universities demanding? Of what? What is it that they are looking for? We're bringing all those in or and deliver those.

Djagmo: And you hire at Infispark for positions like?

Osheen: Program trainers, managers, trainers. We, at this point so trainers, there are some which a full time there is for a very specific ecology. You know, we work on the FreeLancing base as well. So if you're a trainer in a particular technology and you want to apply for us, just go to Infispark. ust apply with us. You would love to have a system. Yes, so of course, I mean, There's a basic structure of a company. You know. Multiple roads tend a lot of the program managers, Assistant program managers, placement coordinators, because we're doing that as well. Yeah, so these are some of the positions that we hire for.

Djagmo: And what's your team size at this point in?

Osheen: At this point, twenty five plus minus.

Djagmo: And so do you have a territory within which you're supposed to operate when you're a partner with Microsoft and other Tech giant?

Osheen: Now we worked in India, So we have delivered workshops in almost all these dates of India. Most of these states, and there are also multiple companies like you. Re doing the same thing. I would say exclusively how broad we are. There may be less. companies who are doing there may be very nice in one space. Or you know, maybe some of them

have become channel partners to sell most of the products. We are not really the channel partners. We are not interested in selling the products of these companies a lot. Right. We are helping them becoming an extended family. So yeah, we're pretty unique in in our very own terms, but yes, there are a couple of them which are Kind of working in similar domains. But then our clients love us because we do a lot of detailing and a lot of heavy lifting. And that comes because that's what I've learned all these years, you know, to be very detailed. the kind of work there I was doing as a student partner and very hands-on experience which I've had. That's the culture I've built in my team as well, and they all tend to follow it.

Djagmo: Great, And do you also help students with getting jobs in this process? Is that also a part of the thing that you do?

Osheen: Yes, for some students who enroll with us in the sort of detailed programs which are actually paid programs which we are doing with some universities. So they go through these to do three months of short time programs, and then, once they have completed, let's say eighty percent of their course. That's when we held them with the job assistants as well, and believe me, there's ample of opportunities out there. You just need to be skilled. I do it every now and then. You know for one thing or the other, but then there's not. They're not enough skilled people here to take them sometimes, I actually don't have good enough resumes to sign when I receive them.

Djagmo: Okay requirements from these tech giants of the work?

Osheen: Tech giants, not really tech giants. Working for these tech giants are very different, right because the hire from the top campus, you need to be a very extraordinary student. If you want to get there, the imagine cup winner or something. But then you don't realize as a student that there's an ample of opportunity when you work in the partner ecosystem of these companies as well, okay. So let's say tomorrow you're working at Amazon. You have an aspiration to go there. But then what you don't realize is that there are so many implementation partners for W. S. You know who are implementing and helping a lot of started like yours. You know, maybe you know to launch, and they needed W S experts, Every other company, which is every other website, every other soft, where every other sash, part of which is wasted on a W. S, needs people to manage it, so you have to think beyond just getting into an Amazon. In Anyways, there's ample of opportunities out there, you know, and if you stick to any one particular technology, any man you can get placed in any of these with any of these partners. You know they are in constant need and they are hiring. These partners are hiring in bulk numbers. Like, really like huge numbers. So it's not that there's just one or two open positions, but for fresher than you can, you can get a good package up to six, lack and above at the very beginning you know, which is quite rare for the To to Campuses in India. 

Djagmo: It is. Yeah, great. So there are always you know opportunities are always there. It's just that you know students need to kind of skill themselves up to meet those requirements. Great, and just one more question about you know students, and the way you help them. So far, you know we've been talking about the tech side of your training, but I'm sure you must have seen a lot of gaps in communication skills as well. Some people you know go to the extent of saying that You know thirty persons is what your text skills are. But you know seventy percent are all the other things. You know. What makes you a well rounded individual. So do you also offer help in that aspect of students?

Osheen: Yes, and in fact it's needed. You know what it's quite needed, and you know where we are working on these job assistants on any programs that we do on any of the programs I'm talking about. not just in Infispark, or she have scored any program that we do. Soft skill is one of those aspects where it's needed for you to dedicate at least twenty hours as somebody who's running a program you know for the students irrespective of whether they are what part of India they come from Okay, or what sort of communication level that these students have? I strongly believe when we impart soft skill training, we focus a lot on what is needed for you to be really interview ready. Okay, and this is something which I would recommend to all the students that pay attention. Rehearse some questions that you don't have to be byheart, but at least go through some sort of a mark interview. some sort of you know, find, or at least rehearse some sort of answers which is personalized to you and when we take these soft skills for employability, central training, most of our sessions actually revolve around resume building, very very important. what sort of photograph to have, I've seen students putting up weird selfies on their LinkedIn profile on their resumes, which is not how it's supposed to be. There's one session which is specifically dedicated to what to wear. What should be our interview etiquette as a man, How you should dress as a woman. How you should dress in an interview. Students who are coming fresh out of college are not aware of these etiquettes, So you know what? when they say like that, seventy percent of seventy percent is actually your soft skills. It encompasses all of this and not just how fluently you can speak English. Okay,  I hire candidates based on how good their behavior skills are? You know. So if you are consistent and your good behavior, even though you don't have any X factor, I would still hire you because you are a reliable person. For me, You know, how can you do all those projections in your interview? I feel that's very very important. Prepare yourself. You know, when somebody asks you to tell me about yourself, you should be able to tell them about yourself. Right, and very basic questions, strengths, weaknesses, rehearse those. So we focus a lot on this, so it's, like a very squeezed, you know twenty hours kind of training in most of our programs where you get most of the information that you need for cracking an interview right and over and above When it comes to mostly English communication. That's a long time. Bet you, you have to put in an effort to polish yourself. I think it's a fantastic app for anyone to sort of get started and stick to it. Go up to the highest level possible and you'll be good, which requires effort.

Djagmo: Got it. so, apart from all the things that you do for Infispark, I'm sure there's this one topic: all revenue, and I'm sure as an entrepreneur, one of your eyesights is also on how to increase that revenue right. So how do you go about doing that? So what are your plans or do you know how you acquire more projects? or let's say for example? Well, if one of your businesses is getting most students to enroll into your courses, you know how you go about doing that.

Osheen: So, Um, number one, The one thing definitely is good work and good work and good work within Infispark. I've been very lucky enough to always have less number of people working on the amount of products that we have had. So instead of you know, focusing and I'm telling you, instead of focusing a lot on marketing, a lot on spending a lot of money in the You know a lot of marketing activities that we're doing themselves boasting about. Your work should say a lot. So if you're doing your work with a lot of honesty, and you're visible in the ecosystem where you're supposed to be, you know at the right time, and are just being helpful. I think kindness is very much underrated in the business, right, so every time my clients come up and ask me on, you know I'm stuck here. Can you help me with this? We try to become their left hand. Honestly, we try to help them as much as possible. Whether it's a part of the scope of the project or not, we do. not, so I think  I've hardly ever had any conversation with any of our clients. Talking about this was not a part of the project. I think I've never used that phrase in all these six years in my life, and I'm very proud of it. And so it's my team. And if you sort of achieve that, It's very easy to boot strap and sort yourself. As an entrepreneur, you also have to think about a lot about sustainability and scalability and that is where, like I told you, in the beginning, I come from a pretty modest family, a very humble background, and I didn't want to end up as an entrepreneur you know, struggling very hard for the years, and you know, in the end giving it up, you know, just because or I would have Been successful. Who knows? but then I sort of chose a safe bet. Like more, me, it was more of a right way to do the business rather than chasing another round of funding. You know, so I started my journey. Very old school started with the services business, so that I became financially stable. My company at any point in time has a run through, for you know, X, number of months, minimum, six months, one year, and over over the time, Built on something which is more scalable and sustainable, And so, after all these years gaining the experience in the education industry, I started to work on my new initiative which is already launched and running, and it's called a she loves code.

It's very close to my heart. so that's where we are. That would be one area that I'll be focusing a lot on in the next two to three years.

Djagmo: Great. great. so you mean to say that you kind of brought you know, got Infispark to that position where it can go on a bit of a cruise mode And then you know you can focus on she Loves code. I do. I'm going to come to she Loves code. I have a lot of questions on that, but before we move on, I just want to ask few. probably the last few questions about Infispark. So

what you know are the teams that you have, or what are the teams that you need for Infispark, To you know, kind of sustain the way it is right now Watching. In the sense you know, do you have a sales and marketing team? Do you have a team?

Osheen: So I think one of the largest blunders I would say you know that I did during my business journey was I didn't consider or understand the importance of HR. You know what, when you have a small team and you are a team of four or five people, and you have so much going on and you're not able to just find a time to cater to any one of your employers, and you're just sitting there wondering why I'm not able to find the right set of people. You know what you need in nature. Okay, it's going to fix a lot of things in your company because we, as an entrepreneur, think that you know what HR is. Some sort of. That's the work that I can do by myself. You know that's the work I can do. Maybe I just employed one admin person to do it for this. It's got. It was a nightmare for me to operate without a HR. So by the when the age

I actually bought, you know, when I finally got a nature for my company, things started to really, I started to find the solutions of those problems which I was facing all the time. a lot, second, most important, very, very important as It is. See if you're a business owner and I'm giving. I'm still giving you a very. You know the appropriate amount of. If you, if you think that your company is doing a revenue of more than a hundred cars, get an assistant. You need it. I was one of those people who was always busy, always on the laptop, always doing everything by myself. I was such a bottle neck for my company. I can't tell you, and I was and I was like. I am not even able to do the business. You know, I'm not able to bring in the business and not even to work on my business objective. It was beyond frustrating, you know, and then I realized that Okay, it is time that I get an assistant for myself, so that not everybody is reaching out to me for every little subscription for every little you know aspect that I need a little. I just need to know, Seconds of machine, But there's five seconds. There are fifty people asking me.

My brain power and I were constantly missing out on the things you know. I was. it was. It was. So it had become such a nightmare. Um before I actually realized that I needed an assistant. You know, had I known this, I would have gotten it away before. And after that, I have a wonderful sister. Now she manages everything and does not require brain power.

Basically everything is automated. everything is outsourced and she has kind of helped me get my Get me together put together. She's the one who manages my calendar. What am I supposed to do in a day? To all the requirements documentation she is. She's very good at it.

That's what she focuses on, and the assistant mostly has that insane ability to just remember everything right. As a founder, I just drop in a wise note. not even sometimes any time. It's not even a message and I assume it to be sort of taken care of, and it is taken care of. So once I've given it to somebody, the expectation with an ear is that. listen. Now it's in your court, you have to come and follow and  believe me, try and build a culture in your company wherein you know. It's a Responsibility of the people who are reporting to you to get a response from you. You're not responsible for giving a response to them just because there has been a one email which has come up because people have to understand that you as a founder or you keep really really busy, you know, and we genuinely want to respond to as many things

as possible, But then it can go. You know, it can sometimes get things start to get a little out of hand. very much, very much. It happens with me almost on the ride basis. Believe me, Yeah, so

Djagmo: Great, Great, it's been great so far and I can't wait to continue this. So Yeah, you spoke about a team and then you spoke about having an executive assistant. Apart from having

you know talking about your departments, I think this added a lot of value because I can. I could clearly see the difference between organizing this podcast With you as opposed to the people that I organized with in the past, Right, because there was somebody else following up with me and all those things, because even today when I talk to Entrepreneurs, you know founders, I talk to them directly and get their time. And you know Schedule a podcast. It makes a lot of difference. I mean, if it can make a difference to the guy who's getting an appointment, imagine the kind of difference that I can make for that person. So I think to all the entrepreneurs, listening or aspiring ones, if you think It's an expense, it looks like it's not an expense. It's an investment.

Osheen: And another, I mean, I would. I would like to add on. So of course, I have a lovely assistant and she is, of course, full time in Infispark, but there are companies and this is for all the founders who can't really afford to have somebody full time. Okay, so if you are a founder, who does not have one who can't afford a lot, you know, and you don't want to have somebody like absolutely handed percent full Time. And then there are companies you know, and I would like to give a shout out to grow up here. They are absolutely amazing folks who understand

the requirements of founders. These are the people who literally just offer the assistant virtual assistants who are operating remotely and can dedicate like from two hours up to eight

hours. You can choose a package for two hours, four hours, six hours late. So that's a very interesting business model that they have. I'm a huge fan and they don't. they, not only give

the virtual assistance they also give it's still markets, they give accounting folks, You know, So if you, if you're a founder and you are like okay, I can't really hire somebody as a full time age or full time assistant, hire them so that this one person is deployed in Four companies by them, but it's still taking care of you in the in the need so yeah, I think that's a very interesting

model and solves a lot of problems for a lot of small business owners.

Djagmo: So you said I was going to ask you, But then you already said that you're now. If you're going. If you're doing a revenue of hundred thousand dollars. That's probably when you need to have a team and your executive assistant. Would you also have a number? You know? Do they also have to say Okay if I have so many people. If the team sizes X, you have a number for that. Let's say two people have to look out for having an when they have five people in their team or ten people. How does that work? Does it even work like that?

Osheen: mostly three. You want to start looking out for an. If you're looking to expand, Okay, so if you are, let  three people, three to four people in the team. That's fine with me. The challenge was that I had so much work and I was not able to find the right set of people for my company. You know, at that time because I was not able to supply. I went hunting by myself. That's not what my core competency is. My core competency is actually bringing the business.

Keeping You know, keeping people happy or keeping my employers happy. Do what best I do, but then crawl through the length and profiles and find the right set of candidates and you know making them interview negotiations. All of that is not my competency and neither do I want to get into any of that. So if you're looking, listen, my company needs people. And if you're thinking and you have that amount of work Actually, where you want to scale from four to ten to twenty to thirty. you certainly do need it. If you're not able to do it, then this is your answer. 

Djagmo: A great. That was very insightful. And what are the other departments you have apart from HR and the executive. Do you have it in -house, or do you outsource it?

Osheen: Out source, outsource. As a founder of a small big business on owners, I'm telling you to outsource as much as possible. Okay, so that when you want to shrink your team size because of very, you know, in tough times, let's say covid, or you're not getting another chunk of funding.

you're able to scale down really easily. Okay, so you want to have some caring People in your team. Try to work on a hybrid model if it's possible. And there are companies who are doing that. There are startups who are literally doing that. The other day I received an email. I don't remember the name of a company who was reaching out to me because they wanted to

leverage teams thirteen to eighteen years of teams to help you get an outreach for more people. Why wouldn't I go for them? It's an outreach model. So it's up to you as a founder. You want to be really really smart. Work on a hybrid model. You can. if you don't want to. If you think that you can, you won't be able to sustain this for a long time. Work on the contraction basis with the people you know, and there will be people who will be happy to contribute. Just need to figure out the right way to do what you need.

Djagmo: Okay, And that's an accounting team. And what about sales and marketing? Is that all you?

Osheen: It's mostly me and I have another sort of business executed with me. There are two of them and they work very closely with me. So the first call of the day I have is with them because this is a mistake that I realized that I was doing everything else except actually filling the business, because I had before my age and my year, and all of that. So whenever these people reach out, my assistant has a very clear understanding. That if there's a need for the call, the time start at first will be given to these people. Priority is very much. You need to have a very solid delegation system, very very solid, needed, much needed. and you know that in getting developed over the night, you have to spend a lot of time. you have to train your people as a founder. you will have to put in that you know six to eight months of effort. So to get it so Moving, Um, you know, and it's going to be different for everyone else. I'll tell you. I mean, I considered it is a joke, but this is the reality. You know one as a founder. One of our full time job is to actually just keep giving a pie. And I got so frustrated. At one point I said

I'm not going to give any OTP, you know, So literally, Gargi had to sit down and change my number from everywhere and put it at a common number which is especially handled by her. So now the only kind of messages is this was struck me, reached out to Gargi. and now it is done. You know. it's This is how it works, so I just get an update message. That's it.

Djagmo: Great, Great, That's a nice solution to that problem. I think a lot of people might take a leaf from this Great before I move on I just have two more questions. Just to you know, address the trainers out there. now. The reason I'm going to ask you. this is your company deals a lot with

training, and you also said communication skill. So there are technical trainers And then there are communication trainers now to those trainers from both the domains who are listening

to this right. what do they need to do to become better at what they do? And if they have entrepreneurial aspirations, what is it something that you'd like to share with them? You know where do they have to start?

Osheen: See, they already are solopreneurs. First of all,Okay, second is you know what? In this particular eco system that we tell you? Of course it matters that how good you are connecting with the audience and your training skill. but let me tell you the market is so saturated. Almost a lot of trainers are good at what they do. they have the experience they have been teaching.

Incorporate in universities, you know, and They are good at what they do. They have the required set of certifications. All of that is there. But you know what really makes us work

with the particular trainer and you know, even though we have a pool of these two hundred plus trainers, you know at any point in time to begin, choose for specific, But then there are some sort of people who work with us in the free lands or paces, and we repeatedly keep working with them. They are the first sort of people that we reach out to. You know why, Because they are very much customer centric. I think it is that quality of customer centricity in the trainer system. Let me tell you, I feel is completely missing, and I'm telling you, after you know, working in this for years, you know, and having being a trainer by myself when I started within Infispark, I'm telling you, the customer centricity is totally missing. You need to, as a trainer, have some of the basic things in place, and I think that That will take you a long way. you know, So you know, I think I thought that day only I was watching this video of Actually come, and in fact, surprisingly I was. also, I mean you, not surprisingly. coincidently. I had also attended to Hindostan, some wit in which he was speaking. That you know, people work with me just because I come on time, and the project will get completed So that's the kind of discipline and image You know, the reputation that he has built over the years. If you can get At right, it will make everyone work with you over and over again. That's just the reality and trainers are not able to get into that.

Unfortunately, most of them. so as a training, you need to realize that what is that I can offer over and about right, you should not be centric around. Can just being paid some number of dollars for our basis outcome. I'll do my job and I'll get over. You know, Just be aware that Okay, what is your participant are going through? Are they We do actually learn? Are you able to offer in support even after you know that two hours of session? Have you given an additional notes? Some sort of a structure for participants to go through And we are a company. You have to go and ask all  of this to them that provide this. Why should we be doing it? That's something

that you excel in. That's what you do for the living, So you should have these tick marks already up in place all You know, and be open to take feedback. I think somebody who's starting up new, please be open to take feedback. Okay, most of the trainers are not so for. let's say for a particular topic that you try to teach. That's a soft skill. a soft skill is a very big gender. But even

if you take up a text skill, you know any skill. You know that skill really well as a trainer. Okay, but then your audience is different. Could be different. There are so many pay after placement initiatives who want the students to be placed. So you would. They would want you to teach that particular skill in a particular manner to these students so that they get placed okay when you're when you're training the say, a different kind of audience, Let's say incorporates. You're imparting that skill so that that particular audience can further go head and build a product. Okay, these are two separate. It is so when when your employer comes and ask you

for such differences, don't be offensive about it. We are not pointing out to your training. we're not pointing out your capabilities. We just want to customize. It's need right and somehow, Kate. somehow, most of the trainers are not able to get to this. Unfortunately, in this scenario, or you know, over the times I've worked with them, they don't. they, just don't have a basic right.

Djagmo: I'm glad I'm glad I asked this question because you know you started off saying that you know what the marke is saturated. Lot of trainers are really good at what they do, but then you know you ended up giving a lot of constructive feed back where you know trainers can kind of reflect on and the here seems to be a lot of areas for them to kind of risk and get better. So yeah, I think this is a great insightful feedback.

Osheen: I'm telling you, for example, in India, I'm telling you the way we as a company work, or this is a very small business, but I face it on every day basis, and that's where you know. That's why I want to bring it up for whoever is listening, and whoever is interested in this field have patients Okay. So we, as in Infispark, I'm very proud to say that because we are It tripped and were cashes company, we have never defaulted on any of payment. You know, Over these years because we built, we built a structure very slowly and sustainably right. tAnd but for us as a company when we sort of clear payments of all these venders that we have, and we have hundreds of them. Okay, We really don't want to work with somebody who is literally breathing down our neck And not patient enough to receive the payment. So thirty days in India,

sixty days, in fact, is a very standard payment terms, thirty to sixty days  After you summit the envoys Okay, so let's say a trainer somewhat. you know, on, let's say on fifteenth of February, the training is done. If you have raised the invoice on thirtieth of February, then you wait. sorry, twentieth of February. Then you wait for another one month for it to be cleared without Following

it up on every single day, you know, and there are invoice deadlines that every company has, which. it seems like getting really into the of the business. But this is a challenge out there. This really is a challenge. huge challenge with the trainers so that you know Reliability to open question. Hey, but I would say understanding and trusting the processes right That that is also somewhere I feel is quite missing in India.

Djagmo: I think, thank you so much for you know, opening up so much about in park. Now I would like to move on to. Actually, you know what I thought my agenda was going to be mostly about she love score, because that's what was really attractive to me. But in Infispark, I was wondering what exactly is in Infispark. know, I just couldn't figure things out when I was going through your linked in and all those things. so thank you so much for you now patiently explaining how each and everything works. She loves code. though it's very. You know, if I go Website, I get what she loves code is because there are also other schools that I know who do similar work. But I do have some other questions when it comes to she loves, But before that, please talk about. how was you know She loves code born. When did the idea come up to you and all those things, And then  I'll ask you some of the questions based on you know

Osheen: So  this was a year ago. Okay? there were. I've traveled more than two hundred plus university is across India during my  career, and there was a definitely skill care which I was,

you know, sort of observing. But then there were so many good initiatives which were coming up to that, like you have pointed out right, there are so many of them and I'm and I'm very proud of the way the system has a world. What? And when I actually interacted with a lot of students in these initiatives when I interacted, when, in fact, I sort of you know, enrolled myself just from the learning standpoint, you know, because I wanted to brush up on my cording skill and I'm also very hands on, you know, on everything that we teach. So I tried exploring. And you know what I realized, There was some very very key factor which I realized In most of the Classes you look at the male to female ratio. It is eighteen. Twenty eighty percent of them are being okay. And I would. I would like to tell you a story about and a quick experiment which was done, And that will help you understand that where where was she loves cool Actually born. So there was an experiment which was conducted in one of these schools in us, And there was this nice amazing teacher who walks up to the class room of girls and boys, both co education and gives a very tough problem, comparatively tough problem to solve. for a fifth standard students, the students belong to fifth standard, but that problem statement belong to was very hard for any which way for any student to solve naturally, and all of them all these students in the big

name Became thrilled to solve they were trying. After twenty minutes. The time has gone by. Nobody was able to solve it And then the group of boys walks up to the professor to the teacher and tells that You know what. There's something wrong with the problem. I'm not able to solve

It and professor. S. Okay, teacher says Okay to worry. And then a few minutes later a group of girls walk up To the same teacher that listen. I'm not able to solve the problem. There's something wrong with me, So you know why that is because that is. That is because we as women, specially in India, Let me tell you, we have a huge impostors in Rome, wherein we constantly feel that we're not good enough. Why is it that? Why is that so? Because and I can relate a lot with my upbringing even though my parents have supported a lot. but naturally I'm telling you that we, as girls are brought up to be perfect. look good, have proper dresser, have goods here, learned to cook, look well polished, speak well, be well managed. Get all In the on the degree and that is why you have so many girls who are you know doing, scoring ninety nine per cent in words examinations and not able to clear the competitive examinations. You know so all of that. And and that is because we are raising our girls to be more perfectionists. We should

be raising them to be brave, like the same way that we are doing to our boys. You know if tomorrow if your son you False walking, you say you just stand that you know. get get up on your own. Yeah, you know, dust it off. Walk again. That's That's how you want to treat your son on the other and the daughter on my. but a baby. You know where did it? Did it? leave the mark? You know. That's that's the regular approach. Even till date. My father does not allows me to go up and open the door of my. you know, whenever he is around, he's the one Who first reach out if somebody knocking at the door. He s the one wot's goin to At first. There's a very subtle, you know, ways in which perfectionism is sort of incorporated in the life of of a woman. So then it sort of prohibits us to actually speak up you know, and probably that's the reason that

only twenty percent of codes are actually female in India. Twenty per cent, twenty percent, And I'm talking about All the idea is combined. I'm talking about Tccabsnitecke in Phasis Pro.

all of them. so it's It's huge That the difference is huge and that is where I felt that there is definitely a need to form some sort of a student community for women, you is operating on a similar initiatives like this, And that is where she, she of Score was born As women. If you ask me, you put me in the women Central community, or you put me with a group of women, I instantly feel comfortable, and when I'm learning, I'm able to then speak up. talk. ask my question. So today the founder, of course I'm I'm a woman. It is. All our trainers are female.

Are are women, our females. All Ur community managers are females, are literally just open Up to speak about anything and everything that they want to. The kind of challenge is that if the face, some of them are literally just cooking rotis and attending our classes, you know in the evening because they want to feed their brothers and husbands, and who know right, so they have their own set of challenges. So it is also for the women who want to re, define their careers

who want to you know, start from the very base they get to a text. Pace. want to restart their career after maternity leave for career cap. All of that so yeah, Yeah, I felt that there was a need and this is certainly not possible in Environment where you know eighty percent of audience is

actually there.

Djagmo: What are your offerings? You know, for those Who are listening, What does she loves code offer? So it's in s first cording boot camp for women, which is also par after placement

Osheen: So we train you for six months primarily on full stack development. At this point we're looking at launching another flavor of this course and cloud computing and becoming probably in twenty twenty three. You know, So for we train you for on fullstack development for six months, and we  give exclusive forty hours of soft skill training as well, which includes all your. If I get a profile what to speak in the interview, Would have spoken in the podcast before, at the starting of this podcast. All of that and then we place you in a company with minimum four point five lacks of package. Once you have been placed, you can pay us with small monthly installments. In a natural. That is what it is.

Djagmo: Is this trainer led or is it self paced courses?

Osheen: It's all life, its trainer led, and we have classes every evening seven to nine

p. M. for you to come in our glasses. I do not believe a lot in self placed courses. Reason is very simple. We have all reached our saturation levels, and if you look into the demographics, really you will understand that only seven percent of course is world wide on line are actually getting completed, which are self play based, right and wit, Which is you know, a huge cat, So other self based courses, children order to bore and skilled because.  There is we too much information out there. In my opinion, it's all instructor that we teach you everything life, we give you daily assignments, something or the other small to work on. You do a project with us, So by

the time you actually complete your six months course, you already have two projects which you have built by yourself. So After Job portfolio the during the course, But so go, You know you wanted to morrow. Go ahead and take up your job, And you're like I don't have an experience.

I'm just a fresh. This portfolio is going to help you get well,

Djagmo: And what is the eligibility you know? Is there any age limit? What are the prerequisites Can you walk us through that?

Osheen: So there is no specific prerequisites in terms of what you need to know, or any specific degree that you have undergone for. Because we literally start from very basic, which start from what is high level language? What is low level language? What is computer? What is binary language?

Djagmo: Do you have an entrance test of some sort?

Osheen: We are looking at putting up an entrance test for the upcoming batch, you know, which is not like too hard. you know. To be honest, we just need a right intention from the outside that you're going to be completing this force. You know that's what we are looking at. We don't care a lot about what you already know. it doesn't. It doesn't make sense for me to take up a three audience and for the web, them and then suiting another flavor. It just doesn't work. Uh, like

that. At least in my brain, I don't think so. I'll be able to do justice if I just take up the already empowered audience. I just want to have. I want you to have the right reason to be a part of this course. That's nothing. at least the intention, right intention really goes a long way. We do sign an is with them, of course at the beginning when they join our courses, which is sort of an agreement that you know, once you have completed this courses, You get a job In case you don't get a job after completing the course, you don't pay us anything, So we have a lot of skin in the game as well.

Djagmo: You’re largely you're looking for women who've graduated in the year twenty fifteen or later.

Osheen: Mostly mostly. So the ones who are looking for a job who are looking for up skill themselves come from maybe a non technical background like but still i want to pursue a technical career. Maybe somebody who was already doing a job severely underpaid wants to skill and then get a better job. Maybe who? Most of this audience falls under this category By the way wherein they have had you know, they have completed their engineering, And after that they are not able to get a job. You know, because they didn't really get proper skilled folks from M. C. The most of them are not getting the kind of job that they're looking for So those people can enroll in.

Djagmo: Okay? And what is the team size of? She loves code. At this point.

Osheen: We are trainers minus, because trainers there and compass, most of you know most of the team because they are the ones who are running this show for us right, So trainers minus, we have five to six people who are working on sheet at this point.

Djagmo: Great, and what are the numbers? like? You know? how many students have you trained so far? What is the conversion? You know, what is the ratio of people that enrol and people

that actually end up getting a job?

Osheen: So so far we are actually a very recent initiative. we launched it in. We launched it in twenty twenty two. That was just last year. So this is our first part which is currently on going. So we received eight hundred plus applications for this, but we enrolled

only twenty of them to begin with. Actually, very selectively. which is the audience which

we felt had a right sort of an intent, you know, Be a part. A lot of them come from the rural parts of my Estra, from different parts of you know country, and are trying to build their careers.

Some sort of background, and currently the bath is still on going. Actually, you know, they are in their final phases before the placement actually begin. We're gearing up for the batch, too, but yes, of course you know what. We do, Have certain sort of advantage. However, in the placement, If I have to tell you, most of the companies today Have there have a lot of focus on diversity. Okay, terms of hiring the candidate, we get that sort of slight advantage, you know, so even before starting she, if I did speak with a lot of recruiters, you know that what is that they are missing and they really needed a lot of female quarters, you know, developes so as to fulfill their diversity targets that they had, And I think that will that that sort of natural advantage that women have in this field as of now.

Djagmo: Great. and what I mean? How confident are you that all the twenty are going to get placed,

Osheen: something that the time will tell you know, But we are at least aiming for eighty five percent of placement.

Djagmo: Create, create. So you said you had eight hundred applications and you chose only twenty Right? So two parts, I have a question, two parts. How easy. I mean, was it very easy to get it

hundred applications? Did you have to do any marketing? Any expenditures? or was it just you know, sharing organic on social media?

Osheen: We did. We did. We did run a lot of advertisements on these social media platforms, But that's what we do. That's what we have done. Most of it we have got from there then. of course we got. We did a lot of webinars in some universities that we were connected with. our programs not promoted, but we were able to gad some attention of the audience who wanted to be a part of it. 

Djagmo: Okay, and I mean what did you just have a number in mind? Look, you know what, we just need twenty people or you went through all eight hundred applications.

Osheen: Yes, of course we short listed,

Djagmo: Okay. Now what what I meant was let's say, for example, you know you go through the hundred applications and then you found your twenty. Did you just keep the seven hundred

in weight list for the next batch of something like that? Is what I'm trying to understand, But what is your application short listing process like

Osheen: So there are multiple factors in old in it. Of course, the number one is the intent, so, of course, the way that you fill up your application or the way that that you're reaching out, we tend to sort of asses. that. what is the sincerity level of the candidate? You know, if they're willing to sort of completely program, and the one of the major reasons of as a business person, as an entrepreneur who is looking at building up this initiative, We wanted to run Our first match very meticulously very. We didn't want to go overboard and have hundred people in our bad and struggle with whether we are doing it right way or not when we were doing the first batch. Okay, so there has been a lot of learnings and I think there was a very good decision that we took to keep the bad side small so that we are able to interact with each of these students at one to one level And understand what is working best for us, and what what is working? What is that is not working for us. You know, So that sample size was very important for us. You know, we have done similar kind of initiatives which are not pay after placement, but in in Infispark as well, but that was with both girls and boys both. But then here when you are speaking with girls right,

they have their own set of challenges. And how well are we able to understand Is what is

going to differentiate Love cot over? Oh, okay from the regular pay after placement initiatives

Right. So for example, it took us a lot of time to actually get these girls to get that fear out. that. Yes, the first time that you're going to run your code, it's going to fail. It's not going to get through right girl, women you know, sort of know, this could be little contribution, but I'm myself. I'm an engineer. a computer science graduate, turned into an antrepene. and, but for for All of the

audience in your two campus, especially women girls, I've observed that they have this sort of impostors in in terms of quoting that whether my program is going to be legend, and am I riding a good code or not, is going to day we run through or not, just have to understand that you're not going to get it right in the first, for. so it took us a lot of time to get them to code, Really really cold, and get away from just Learning theory. Okay, so they are greater the greater you know, understanding the concepts. But then when it comes to the practical implementation, we really have to push them from their comfort, You know, so we sort of you know. for the coming

up programs. At first, we started with introduction to programming. The data structures will call them front and back end and a little bit of system design. This is is mostly our curriculum, But then, as then, when I, when we have worked with these kids, we realized that we should actually take up data structure and call them at the last. For most of these candidates. Can we do intrude programming and then front and back, And you know, sort of to begin with, It's when when they're on front when they're working on fronted, it could be a little comparatively easier topic for them to begin their journey. They get more time to do their projects because by the time they're doing data structures, they can sort of get more work more productively on the projects that has been taught in front during front and back in classes. So all these learnings are something that you get when you have run I program. You just can't get that feedback. Just like

that. You know, talking to the students, talking to just the audience. You have to commit

certain mistakes to be able to, you know, actually identify that what is going to work out. Yeah,

Djagmo: Got it. I'd like to ask you this question from different perspective. You know. Now we've spoken about your business and the stuff that you do a lot of things. But now not that you know, this is of utmost focus or importance, but just for the benefits, just for the benefit of some of the women that might be listening to. I, Now you as a woman, Entrepreneur, right you might, there

are a lot of women out there who may not be aware of what are he special initiatives that are out there? It could be government. It could be private, but you know, can you share some of the things that are available which you feel women aren't leveraging enough

Osheen: Um, so Okay, Now there are. there's so many programs which are out there. You know. there is place. hoppers, confidence there is. You know. There are. there are programs which are run by a lot of these corporate, and the fun part is that I sort of keep changing

over the years right, so not everything is going to be consistent from the time that

I started my entrepreneurial journey. In fact, when we teach students in one of our programs, actually we have a full set On which is dedicated. Talking about what are the German schemes which are available for the for for the women to leverage? Let's say, if they want to be an entrepreneur tomorrow, what are the documents which would be required And you know what would be if you. If the if you tick mark those five parameters, you can get up to five tropics of low. you can get up to ten lakh rupees of loan to just begin your entrepreneurial  journey, and it can be an entrepreneurship as well. it need I be something huge that you're going after, but something you. very as basic as um as basic. opening up a bakery of your own. You know, if if you don't come from that sort of a privilege background that I come from, you know, and you are there in this small place or district And you want to sort of self sustain, become in. And then there are a lot of schemes which are available from the Government of India. Now I haven't personally leverage those because I started.  might be, you know business, a lot more boots

strapped. But then a little bit of Google Search will help you. Certainly they are. there are out especially for women available.

Djagmo: Of course, Yeah, Probably it wasn't fair on me to ask you for me to ask you. You know fair on you to be asked that you know one of the programs. I would rather you know Refraseet.

question, You know, what would you ask women to do to kind of find these things? Google Search obviously is one of the things, but I think maybe you know visiting these websites. Do they have a special section? Like say, these tech giants? You know, the private corporations to day. Have you said they're looking for diversity? If you have To simply say how to you know Leverage that particular aspect. Is there anything special that women need to do, or you know, Just focus on skills and go ahead. you know. that's probably where I was trying to come from

Osheen: Yeah, so I'll certainly you know. Answer that question. the obvious Google Google Search looks like an obvious option, but I think so to be successful in your life, you need to be an excellent researcher. That's why philosophy you know and I also researching is also my super power, at least what my team says, So you now, to be able to dig into things and figure

out I personally feel, and because I'm running a lot of these Programs and these corporate, you know, not every initiative deserves. I wouldn't say, deserve or requires a website, So there's a possibility that there is something out there which doesn't have its website of its own. Not every initiative requires a press release because possibly is one of the hardest things to get

done from when you are working with extremely litigious organizations. So not everything is just going to be available for you to explore with a simple Google to search what you want to do. However, is you want to go on LinkedIn and give a philosophy so you will probably be able to find answer to most of your questions if you scrawl your LinkedIn properly. If you're following the right set of people, you know, if there is one particular company that you tomorrow want to work with, Or if you feel that this is a foundation which is more of a woman's centric, then just follow one or two folks who could be leading that sort of initiatives for you. And believe me, they keep on posting a lot on these initiatives that you know. we. let's say they opened up a innovation center somewhere, the setter of excellences somewhere conducted a particular workshop. You

know, they are inviting people to participate in their competitions, So that there goes a Lot on LinkedIn, and that's the place that you need to be to be able to explore. Not everything has you know a website of their own right, Because to get it done for these corporate for every little

initiative that they do, it's still going to cause them a lot of effort. Right, Social media is the platform that they particularly used and leverage, And you need to be on the same page with that.

Djagmo: Great Osheen, I think I'd like to conclude this podcast by asking one question. What is your goal? Where do you see She loves Code? Say down the line three to five years down the line. Do you have a vision?

Osheen: I would have have more like a seven year vision. For that you are like five years, because I think five years would be a little less. But we are aiming at building ten thousand female developer work force for India. That's what. By by by twenty thirty, Yes, that's what the

idea is.

Djagmo: I mean, you're at twenty now and you're looking at an eighty five person conversion rate,

so that somewhere about sixteen and you are aiming at ten thousand. Amazing 

Osheen: So we'll increase our batch sizes coming in becoming you know batches. That's That's how it's going to be. We're looking at marketing with a lot of universities as well over these to make this kind of success. And let's see how it goes.

Djagmo: Now, the reason I specifically spelled it out is just nice. Okay, you know, from sixteen to ten thousand you know. It's really inspiring and motivating also to kind of you now look forward to that kind of a number. Osheen It was a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for sharing so much information. It was nothing short of great talking to you. And you know

what I'd love to get back to you. Probably when you have hundred people, you know, hundred women developers. That would be a good milestone for us to have another podcast.

Osheen: I'm just looking you know, forward to that and thank you for having me here. It was lovely interacting and sharing my experience. You just have some sort of you know magic

about you making the guests feel very comfortable that I have to give it to you. Certainly.

Djagmo: Thank you so much. Thank you. That's the best thing that I've heard. I guess thank you very much. I'm glad you felt that way Osheen and again it was. It was a pleasure having you.

I wish you all the very best and we will stay in touch and when it hits hundred. I'll probably get in touch with you for another podcast.

Osheen: Yes, looking forward to that.

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